Hive lost through Nosema - do you burn or can it be reused?

[fred scuttle]

Hi Folks,

One of my better colonies seems to have succumbed to Nosema over the winter as it was seemingly doing very well... also hefted with loads of stores, and I'd also provided fondant if they needed it (along with Kingspan insulation)...

However, I checked them the other day and they're a complete 'dead-out' - with an awful lot (and I mean a LOT) of dysentry signs all over the brood box, crown board, and combs.... and they're all dead... boo

I know this happens, and politics aside, quick question please from most of the guru's on this forum please?

Can I reuse the hive parts (Combs, Brood Box, Supers, Crown Board etc) - or do I need to bin them? or will scorching and Acetic Acid fumigation work)???

I'd like to reuse the drawn comb (it's only 1 season old) as were all the colonies hive parts, but if I have to bin them rather than fumigate please let me know as I wouldn't want to spread trouble in my other colonies but am reading lots of conflicting information on the T'internet so am asking for advice... (even from you OliverOwner!!!! - I'm not one to harbour grudges!!)...

Thanks, Fred

 

[Tom Bick]

Fumigated with acetic acid and following that scrape and scorch the hive parts.

I have not had to deal with something as bad as you describe but personally I would bin the frames but can understand the reason to keep them.

 

[REDWOOD]

Don't forget to seal the hive until you decide what to do with it

 

[Into the lions den]

OK....this happens....some years we see a reasonable number of heavily fouled hives in dysentery dead outs (it may NOT be nosema btw, there is a likelihood that it is but not a certainty), some years almost none. Last year there were none at all, but this year there are already a few but in wooden hives only.

There is no need whatsoever to get rid of your equipment.

The main hive parts (combs apart) simply need scraping off and a light flame treatment.

The combs have options.

1. You can chop out the comb for rendering down and then sterilise the frames by boiling in a caustic or washing soda solution (not strong, max 5% is good enough for this), or you can even scrape the frames clean and give them too a light flaming.

2. Scrape the frames clean but leave the combs intact in the frames. Fumigate for a week using glacial acetic acid. Air well then you can just reuse them. There appears to be no correlation in our unit historically between using fumigated gear and nosema recurrence.

3. Some beeks I know just burn anything that is very heavily fouled (which means utterly caked in the stuff, not spotted) and reuse the rest without any further work. They claim that by mid summer the bees themselves have tidied everything up and again, no link between reusing the boxes and ongoing problems.

4. One I knew (now deceased) just reused them without cleaning.

We never practice options 3 or 4....but those who do/did swore they were just as effective as doing all the work.

All this dates from the days when we only had N. apis to deal with.

Without seeing pictures this is a VERY preliminary opinion.


ps......if in poly obviously scorching not an option. A wash in the soda solution suffices, as does simply using them as the boxes you use to fumigate the combs.

 

[Ruary]

If you are sure that it is nosema and not any of the foul broods then scrape off stains and fumigate with 80% acetic acid. there would be be no need for scorching.
If you think it might be the foul broods then burn the combs and frames and scorch the rest.

 

[For want of a better word]

as iltd OPTION 1

Ditch the wax and render down for wax polish or candles.
Boil the frames in 5% lye ( washing soda)
Flame the boxes floor roof and any mouseguards, entrance blockers or queen excluders used with the colony can go in with the hot lye.

pollys... scrub off the propolis with the hot lye solution ( do not boil them up in it!) and then soak in a 5% ( ? ) solution of thick bleach for 20 + minutes

IF you managed to retain any dead bee you could get them tested.... talk to you SBI?? It is free ( or Bee inspector if your SBI is not on duty as yet)

Mytten da

 

[Into the lions den]

If you are sure that it is nosema and not any of the foul broods then scrape off stains and fumigate with 80% acetic acid. there would be be no need for scorching.
If you think it might be the foul broods then burn the combs and frames and scorch the rest.

That's the traditional advice and I see nothing wrong with it. We only flame treat the woodwork in a dysentery/nosema case as a precaution as we think it good practice to do so from time to time, in fact we often do it even in the absence of disease.

 

[Arfermo]

If you are sure that it is nosema and not any of the foul broods then scrape off stains and fumigate with 80% acetic acid. there would be be no need for scorching.
If you think it might be the foul broods then burn the combs and frames and scorch the rest.

Nice to see you back here again - but where do you go to for such long holidays?

 

[Poly Hive]

As above but omit the flaming and scrub the woodwork with Virkon S which will deal with naything nasty. I use it for my Mini Nuc mating units.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

As above but omit the flaming and scrub the woodwork with Virkon S which will deal with naything nasty.

Not found to be effective against AFB though, bleach is the recommended liquid treatment for this, especially for poly hives.

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks for that Hivemaker my info is out of date then as it was on the Gov list and was recommended for AFB as I understood it.

From the Gov fact sheet:

C. Chemical sterilisation with disinfectants.
Brood boxes, supers and other beekeeping equipment can be effectively sterilised
using disinfectants containing hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite is present at a
concentration of about 3% in household bleach. Research has shown that immersion
for twenty minutes in a solution of 0.5% sodium hypochlorite kills AFB spores and
other bacteria. In this case you therefore need to make a solution of one part
household bleach to five parts water. It is essential that the spores are in contact with
the solution, so any items immersed must be thoroughly cleaned. For disinfecting
one or two boxes, a suitable tray could be used and each box wall treated
individually, before rotating to treat the respective walls. For larger quantities of
equipment, a deeper trough will be needed. Laboratory studies conducted at the
Food and Environment Research Agency (Fera) suggest that other chemical
disinfectants may be useful for general sterilisation, but further tests are required to
ensure these are effective against foulbrood infection, especially AFB spores. When
using this system you must wear suitable protective clothing, protect your eyes
and use rubber gloves.


PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thanks for that Hivemaker my info is out of date then as it was on the Gov list and was recommended for AFB as I understood it.

From the Gov fact sheet:

C. Chemical sterilisation with disinfectants.
Brood boxes, supers and other beekeeping equipment can be effectively sterilised
using disinfectants containing hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite is present at a
concentration of about 3% in household bleach. Research has shown that immersion
for twenty minutes in a solution of 0.5% sodium hypochlorite kills AFB spores and
other bacteria. In this case you therefore need to make a solution of one part
household bleach to five parts water. It is essential that the spores are in contact with
the solution, so any items immersed must be thoroughly cleaned. For disinfecting
one or two boxes, a suitable tray could be used and each box wall treated
individually, before rotating to treat the respective walls. For larger quantities of
equipment, a deeper trough will be needed. Laboratory studies conducted at the
Food and Environment Research Agency (Fera) suggest that other chemical
disinfectants may be useful for general sterilisation, but further tests are required to
ensure these are effective against foulbrood infection, especially AFB spores. When
using this system you must wear suitable protective clothing, protect your eyes
and use rubber gloves.


PH

Yes that is one of the places where the advice comes from...near the bottom of the same document is this paragraph.

NB. Virkon S is very effective against non-spore forming microbes such as EFB bacteria and viruses. It is not, however, recommended for AFB – use a hypochlorite based cleaner i.e. bleach.

Similar advice regards nosema cleaning in the thread below.

Nosema Ceranae is much more common now, and freezing combs etc will also kill the spores of that Nosema.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22303

 

[Cussword]

When scorching, does it have to be a blowtorch? Would a heat gun/ paint stripper do the job?

 

[fred scuttle]

Thanks for all the good solid advice folks, much appreciated indeed

I have now sealed the hive in question and will get the bees tested before doing anything now just to be sure I know what I'm dealing with, but it does look like a heavy case of Nosema although I'm not ruling anything out at this stage.....

 

[Millet]

Thanks for all the good solid advice folks, much appreciated indeed

I have now sealed the hive in question and will get the bees tested before doing anything now just to be sure I know what I'm dealing with, but it does look like a heavy case of Nosema although I'm not ruling anything out at this stage.....

A few pictures might help these knowledgeable beeks out with a better diagnosis for you.

 

[betterbee]

What a verry informative thread ,look what can be done with a little care posting and no nasty comments or provocation,keep it up please

 

[rdmw]

V interesting thank you


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[Millet]

V interesting thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you from Russia. lol

 

[Ruary]

Nice to see you back here again - but where do you go to for such long holidays?

Oh I just lurk around

 

[BeeJayBee]

When scorching, does it have to be a blowtorch? Would a heat gun/ paint stripper do the job?

A heat gun might not be hot enough to raise the temperature high enough to kill the nosema spores. Basic paint strippers only have one heat setting, that's just high enough to soften paint without burning it. I don't think it's as high a temperature as a blowtorch flame. You'd need to look it up.