hive full of drones

[acabee]

Hi, this is my first post to this very helpful forum, so be gentle....

I'm second year beek. Swarm control this year did not quite go according to plan - ie they swarmed 20 minutes before I did an AS, but I managed to collect. And then a cast. Also collected.

I now have three hives: my original and two hived swarms, both of which are building nicely and queen+. My concern is with my original hive.

As of first week of May, my original hive had 2 capped queen cells. So I left them to it. During May I only had a quick look in under the crownboard as I was mindful of disturbing a new virgin queen out mating etc. All seemed ok.

In recent weeks however, its clear that worker flights from the hive have decreased markedly. Something was not right. So I looked in this weekend to find:

1. one capped queen cell (don't know if this was one of original ones I saw - yes I know I should have marked the frame)
2. no brood at any stage
3. few workers
4. lots and lots and lots of drones.
5. good stores

From this and the passage of time since cast swarm, I conclude: drone laying worker, no queen and capped queen cell unviable.

What to do?

I'm reluctant to use brood from my other colonies as it'll weaken them. I'm also reluctant to shake out as I don't want lots of drones going into the other colonies (on the basis they will be a drain on resources). I'm happy with 2 hives so I can 'afford' to let this one die if it's the right thing to do at this stage, but equally don't want to do that if there is some way of saving this hive (combining?).

If nothing else, the drones are from a very good queen, so I hope at least one or two have had a chance to do what drones die for.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Phayze]

im in a similar situation as you my main hive seems to be a drone laying queen will give her until the wkend to sort herself out if not i will have to try and combine, my other hive will apreciate the extra bees but not the drones, was considering a piece of q excluder over the entrances then shaking the bees off the frames, if this is a bad idea hopefully someone will be kind enough to give us an easier method
thanks
peter

 

[mbc]

bees like lots of drones. lots of drones like virgin queens, could be that your original hive has an unmated queen ? thing to do is to try a test frame (a frame of eggs and young brood from one of the others,)to see if they're queenless

 

[oliver90owner]

acabee,

Where do you think those drones will go as the colony fails? Some will go to your other hives.

To the brood. Can't be lots, just relatively more, if the workers have reduced. A week and a bit will sort out if that is a proper queen cell? No emerge, no good!

Laying workers lay patchy brood pattern, usually multiple eggs per cell and on the sides of the cells. DLQs usually lay the normal (or normal-ish) pattern with a single egg at the bottom of the cell cell. But yours seem to have neither, so likely a queen that has failed completely (no longer laying at all) - unmated queens usually start to lay at some point.

With no other brood, that queen cell sticks out as a dud.

So not a lot left? Not worth trying to salvage, apart from any frames with stores if otherwise healthy. Nosemic queens can stop laying completely. I would tend towards cutting my losses and lose it. Shake the bees out - some will find new homes in the other colonies, but perhaps need testing for nosema really.

From a distance I'm not sure what might be the best course of action, apart from giving up on them, as they appear not to be the usual 'run of the mill' DLQ (or less common Q-).

 

[acabee]

Thanks mbc for your thoughts. I'm reluctant to use brood from my other two growing hives (they have about 4 frames of brood each) as I'm concerned it'll weaken them. I don't want 3 weak colonies - I would rather have 2 strong ones. I'm pretty sure the original hive is queenless - they are very defensive too which is not normal for those bees.

 

[Poly Hive]

First of all queens emerge at 16 days so your cell is likely not the one you first saw.

You can borrow a frame from one of the others to give your suspect colony to test for the queen position. Then return it. So no loss there and a gain of information.

PH

 

[acabee]

Thanks too oliver90owner. I guess you are right: drones more obvious as workers reduce, but even so there do seem to be a lot of them! Many more than I've seen previously - but agree this could be an illusion of sorts.

I did look for multiple eggs in cells from laying worker, but there does not seem to be any eggs whatsoever.

No sign of disease of any sort or nosema. They have a super which was in the process of being capped. If I do shake out the hive, can I give this super to my other hives to cap? All my hives are from the original hive so is disease transmission less of a concern here?

 

[acabee]

Thanks Poly Hive. Will give the test frame a go - though if a QC is made, do I leave it in or just take the frame out again and buy in a new queen? I know there are various views on raising scrub queens - my feeling is that this hive isn't going to perform that well this year and I may be better working with a scrub queen this year and then replacing with a bought in queen next year. Though happy to hear alternative views on this strategy.

 

[oliver90owner]

If I do shake out the hive, can I give this super to my other hives to cap?

Where are some of these bees going to finish up?

RAB

 

[Stromnessbees]

test frame

Thanks Poly Hive. Will give the test frame a go - though if a QC is made, do I leave it in or just take the frame out again and buy in a new queen? I know there are various views on raising scrub queens - my feeling is that this hive isn't going to perform that well this year and I may be better working with a scrub queen this year and then replacing with a bought in queen next year. Though happy to hear alternative views on this strategy.

This is not a bad way forward and I would give it a try.
They might even replace the scrub queen with a supercedure cell themselves if they are not happy with her.

Regarding that left over queen cell:
Have a good look at it, the queen could have emerged from it and the bees could have re-sealed it. Sometimes even a worker goes in to eat some left over royal jelly and get the door shut behind her.

If that's the case you might still have a good young queen in there that's just about to start laying, so don't give up on this lot yet. This woud also explain the large amount of drones hanging about.

The test frame with eggs/young brood is your best bet at the moment, if no emergency cells are made you can repeat the egg donation a week later. The presence of brood will give your bees something to do and make them less grumpy.

Best of luck!

 

[acabee]

Thanks Stromnessbees and Oliver90Owner for your suggestions and comments. All very useful in helping me make sense of the situation and a strategy.

Good experience of my first active use of the Forum!