Hive Choice

[shepherd]

Hi to all, 1st year in beekeeping with one national hive.Would like to know how all of you out there made your hive choice and why.
ps. love the forum

 

[Dilligaf]

The easy answer was that I wanted to keep bees & the other half bought me the hive for my birthday. As it was going in the garden, she chose a WBC because it looks nice. Who was I to argue?
There will be another hive next year. This time it will be a National as it will be going out of sight.

 

[Nellie]

Get the sandbags out.

First point, I think that whichever hive you get there's an element of compromise involved. Whether you feel that's compromise on your behalf as the beekeeper or on the behalf of the bees is open to debate.

I use 14x12 "deep" nationals for the following reasons (I don't ask that you agree with them btw ):

I feel that the 14x12 box is too big for my bees as a brood rearing area. This means that I get a nice sized brood nest with plenty of stores above and around the brood.

That means I can take off the honey supers generally safe in the knowledge that the bees have enough honey within the brood box to see them through winter or a patch of horrible weather.

I also don't get pollen in the first super which I used to on standard nationals.

I hate double brood and/or brood and a half. I get the reasons why people tolerate/like it, but I feel it's a pain in the arse.

I've got flexibility, I can stick standard national frames in my hives. The majority of my brood boxes are Nationals with an Eke. if, perish the thought, I decide that I want to give up beekeeping I can offer you one of two different box sizes.

They work for me and they don't seem to annoy my bees, those are the two most important factors in choosing the hive to my mind.

 

[MuswellMetro]

my grandfather was a beekeeper but i had no interest ,though occasionally helped him, so it went in by osmosis

when he died I found he had several new flat pack 14x12s hive in his shed ( labeled EH Taylor extra deep so they were free and i put them in my shed

and when took up beekeeping i used what i had

but llke nellie, i think larger hives are better for modern bees in the south of Britain either 14x12, commercial or jumbo langstroth

but go with what your bka use

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Nellie and Muswell, how do you rate the handling of commericals against 14 x 12's?

 

[Nellie]

I've never used a commercial in anger.

from a purely personal point of view I like the wide lugs on the national frames, makes it easy hold in one hand, take pictures in the other etc.

I think the Commercial (or Langstroth) dimensions are easier to play with compared to the 14x12 simply because the area is better distributed, but it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other.

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another when it comes to hives to be honest. From a purely personal point of view I don't like long hives in the UK climate whether KTBH, Beehaus or Dartington. I think bees want to go up, not sideways but I'm always happy to hear tales from people who think that's the best type to go with.


[edit]
Just as a footnote, I started out with a bunch of National Kit that I inherited and was advised to go with and converting nationals to 14x12 is an easy and cheap upgrade path.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hi to all, 1st year in beekeeping with one national hive.Would like to know how all of you out there made your hive choice and why.
ps. love the forum

Standard national brood box's,often without excluders,easy to manage and carry out swarm checks and manipulations,all one size frames...yet not too heavy. A few shallow supers still come in handy at times as well.

 

[huntsman666]

Depends on the type of bee for starters.

If you have anything close to the native Apis mellifera mellifera, then National is very suitable.

Watch your back with the others.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Nellie and Muswell, how do you rate the handling of commericals against 14 x 12's?

only my large clumsey fingers in rubber gloves put me off using short lugs

not done commercials but my cousin's short lug smith TO ME are a pain but he luvs them

so again what do people near you use, if in roman do as romans do, so smith in scotland, nationlas in wales, commercial in essex etc€

 

[Nellie]

Pretty much my feeling on the difference between commercial and 14x12 too.

I think there is a lot to be said for going with the flow in the first instance. If everyone around you uses <this hive> go with it. It's not insurmountable to switch to something else but it's a lot easier to go from national to 14x12 or even commercial without having to bin all your supers too. but if you go with Langstroth and everyone around you is using nationals you're making a rod for your own back at a point where you want to be concentrating on the bees not worrying about whether you can put frame A into hive B.

 

[oliver90owner]

I was going to start with 2 colonies in Nationals because they were a good starter and locally the frame size was used by virtually all. I then found one of the LBKA members was packing up, due to poor health, so bought his hives and he mentored me in that first year. So I actually started with four hives (his hives were WBCs).

I quickly realised the WBCs were 'swarm generators' and the Nationals ran out of space too. Can't recall now, but I think I likely bought a 14 x 12 in my second year and then tried OMFs on a deep and the 14 x 12, over the winter. At that time I introduced top bee space as a trial too. Other factors (than brood box volume) affecting my choice of 14 x 12 were cost of new kit and the spherical brood nest shape anticipated in the jumbo format. I certainly did not want perpetual 'brood-and-a-half' after my experience of it on my WBCs!

I chose top bee space, 14 x 12 and OMF as a good combination Some members of my BKA certainly questioned my changes/choices at the time, but some have, of course, followed the OMF and 14 x 12 frame-size paths.

The WBCs were phased out and the original deeps were converted with ekes.

The Dartington was another trial, on my part - but I did go on to make a second as I was impressed with the mangement strategies, and particularly the over-wintering. Still like and use them, which is probably more than I can say for the 'plastic pig' of the beetainer world, the beehaus.

I have now been impressed with jumbo poly nucs (last winter) and will be trialling a 14 x 12 poly this winter, hopefully - as well as a small trial on a slightly different format.

Regards, RAB

 

[Steve Dyer]

Pretty much my feeling on the difference between commercial and 14x12 too.

I think there is a lot to be said for going with the flow in the first instance. If everyone around you uses <this hive> go with it.

I go with this too.
Rule No 1 is only have one type of hive.
You can put WBC lifts round a national if you have to make it pretty, but by and large lifts are a pain.
Not WBC because of lifts.
Langstroths are heavy, as are commercials and you pay a premium for unusual sizes of hives, frames etc.

Ultimately if you are just a beekeeper use what you like, but if you interact with others (Beg, borrow, swap, buy, sell), then go for the common denominator and that's Nationals.

Steve

 

[oliver90owner]

Rule No 1 is only have one type of hive.

I agree, but only up to a point. 'Format' may be a better term, or 'frames of the same format', or 'everything should be compatible'. National is a type but TBS and BBS are variants which are certainly a pain when used together.

My Dartingtons complement my Jumbo Nationals and I am going to be careful that my polyhive type will be compatible with my timber kit (National footprint and top bee space).

I even have two sizes in Dartington hive, but the 'deep frame' version will have an eke fitted so it will take jumbo frames to make it compatible with all my other kit.

RAB

 

[Rosti]

Nellie post #3
14x12

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Hi to all, 1st year in beekeeping with one national hive.Would like to know how all of you out there made your hive choice and why.
ps. love the forum

Initial hive choice determined by what was on offer at auction, ie standard national. Also bought a WBC cos they look nice.

One year on, the standard national is in the garage and the WBC is an ornament in the garden. Both been replaced by 14x12 nationals for reasons stated above, though I wouldn't have any problem reusing the WBC some time in the future as it has a 14x12 brood box inside it, and the lifts are no problem unless you are looking to move it. The standard national will be used sometime in the future as a lure hive.

 

[Polyanwood]

i went for Langstroth because on my maths it meant more bees/fewer swarms and more honey for my money as a beginner. Now mostly on Jumbo.

If starting again I would go for poly jumbo Langstroths - I have had poor compatability between wood and poly to date, so ended up with mostly wood now.

 

[BBG]

I
Ultimately if you are just a beekeeper use what you like, but if you interact with others (Beg, borrow, swap, buy, sell), then go for the common denominator and that's Nationals.
Steve

Trouble is that may include the unseen, undetected disease.
There is a developing mantra that states, "Diseases are spread by beekeepers not bees".

The lessons of Foot and Mouth are easy to apply.

 

[Luminos]

I think I'm right in saying that Dadant is the only one available locally to me and I did not want to lift heavy supers, so it's a WBC for me. I don't find the lifts a problem, but that's perhaps because I have not had any experience with a different type of hive.

 

[TJSnapper]

I started at school with 5 WBC hives but tht was back in the early 90's. just got back into the hobby and bought 3 nationals with bees from a local beekeeper who was downsizing so nationals it is, I still have far too much to learn before messing about withnother hive types, but I see the appeal of a larger brood chamber.

 

[mbc]

Trouble is that may include the unseen, undetected disease.
There is a developing mantra that states, "Diseases are spread by beekeepers not bees".

The lessons of Foot and Mouth are easy to apply.

Massive point about disease transfer. I totally agree


ISOLATION, ISOLATION, ISOLATION !