Having to move bees before April.

[user 3509]

We were told by the landowner of one of our apiary sites that we are going to have to move our hives to another part of the large walled garden where they are at present, due to some renovation work starting on an old large greenhouse at the beginning of April. We thought that the best way to tackle this would be to move the hives permanently to one of our other out apiaries, which is over 3 miles away, and bring the hives from there to the new position in the walled garden. Considering the time of year when would be the best time for the bees to be moved?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would just move the hives already there to their new spot ASAP

 

[Erichalfbee]

All you need is a forecast cold spell of a few days then move them in one go. You can forget the three mile move

 

[Bazzer]

I think it would depend on whether the aspect and direction are very similar or not. If the "look" is nearly the same you still can move directly but I would stick some sprigs of mint or other smelly herb (available from a supermarket?) in the entrance on the first day afterwards you think they will be flying - in order to provide a reorientaton prompt.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would stick some sprigs of mint or other smelly herb (available from a supermarket?) in the entrance on the first day afterwards you think they will be flying - in order to provide a reorientaton prompt.

what book of magic spells did that come from?

 

[Bazzer]

what book of magic spells did that come from?

I use it all the time and it works - no idea where I learnt it from
Not too surprising when you think about it - a strange smell in a hive will put the bees on alert that something has changed

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think it would depend on whether the aspect and direction are very similar or not. If the "look" is nearly the same you still can move directly but I would stick some sprigs of mint or other smelly herb (available from a supermarket?) in the entrance on the first day afterwards you think they will be flying - in order to provide a reorientaton prompt.

If it’s a large walled garden then I suspect there’s no need to visit a supermarket.
I should think the move would be fine without anything in the entrance though.

 

[Amari]

I moved one colony 20m in the cold spell before Christmas and confidently expected to see no returners to the old site. I was wrong: on a warm sunny day 10 days later and for a week or so after that there were maybe 50 bees buzzing and clinging to adjacent empty boxes at the old site.

I assumed those bees would perish but there were no corpses on the sheet of weed membrane beneath. Maybe the bees returned to the new site? Whatever the case, the hive still has plenty of bees so no harm done - except some folk's conscience might be pricked at the thought of the cruel fate of the homeless creatures.....

 

[Wingy]

I’ve always read 3 feet or 3 miles well I had 2 hives on a pallet on a farm last season for the OSR. At the end of the flowering there was so much other forage coming in I left the hives there. When farmer re ploughed the field he fork lifted the pallet & hives and moved them about 150 yards to the end of the field. Was a week later when I attended and hives were doing fine. Granted I think a good few bees would have been lost but they are both still doing well. Farmer now knows to contact me first if they need to be moved

 

[Boston Bees]

I moved one colony 20m in the cold spell before Christmas and confidently expected to see no returners to the old site. I was wrong: on a warm sunny day 10 days later and for a week or so after that there were maybe 50 bees buzzing and clinging to adjacent empty boxes at the old site.

I assumed those bees would perish but there were no corpses on the sheet of weed membrane beneath. Maybe the bees returned to the new site? Whatever the case, the hive still has plenty of bees so no harm done - except some folk's conscience might be pricked at the thought of the cruel fate of the homeless creatures.....

Yes, I've never quite understood the belief that as long as it's cold for a few days, the forager force just forget where they live. Seems implausible. I guess maybe some of them do, if you only had 50 bees returning to the old site.

 

[JamezF]

Yes, I've never quite understood the belief that as long as it's cold for a few days, the forager force just forget where they live. Seems implausible. I guess maybe some of them do, if you only had 50 bees returning to the old site.

Surely it's not that dissimilar to them "forgetting where they live" when they swarm? There must be something that triggers a reorienting response in the foragers?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is a fact that bees carry out a brief 'orientation flight' every morning when they leave the hive just to ensure nothing has changed, before taking off they also look up then down towards the ground to recalibrate their sense of gravity (Prof Robert Pickard) therefore it's logical that if they have been contained for a few days they conduct a more detailed check. Combined with the fact that during the winter there is no great foraging opportunities so their flights are much more local, and much of the time are just quick dumping trips. It therefore makes sense that you don't have to religiously obey the three mile, three feet 'rule' (only an absolute fool would take it literally anyway).
I moved some hives just a few hundred yards before Christmas, it wasn't as cold as I had hoped and the moment I opened the hives at the new location the bees piled out and immediately started flying around the hive (but hardly went much further) I saw none at the old site and when I checked a few days later, there was still no sign of any bees at the old spot, and being a hard standing, any clumps of caaualties would have been easy to spot. Around the same time I moved hives at another apiary just ten feet or so. I was working for quite a few days at the spot they were moved from and saw no sign of any bewildered or lost bees searching that area.

 

[elainemary]

Just to add to the debate. I recently asked someone who gave a webinar to Yorkshire about bees and their ability to learn, about how this applied to moving hives a short distance in winter. He’d covered research on how bee brains work.

This was his reply “ regarding moving bees in the winter.
Bees will remember events related to foraging experiences (colour and scent) for up to 30 days, but as far as colony location is concerned, the memory lasts for around 2-3 weeks. If you get that spell of non flying weather, it will be pretty safe to move a hive. You may still get an occasional bee going back to the original place”

I’ve moved a colony just under a mile in spring but the landscape significantly changed so mass reorientation and I had no issues at all. Left a empty Nuc with used but empty comb on the original site for interest , no bees. Suspect moving a very short distance is trickier, so think if mildish weather persists I would move away first then bring back

 

[Erichalfbee]

Two weeks ago I moved two colonies off the pouring shed roof 500m to the apiary.
They had been. confined by the weather for maybe three or four days and for three or so after
Not a single returnee.

 

[Arfermo]

Sealing the entrances with lumps of foam in the dark the night before would solve that problem?

 

[Murox]

Just to add to the debate. I recently asked someone who gave a webinar to Yorkshire about bees and their ability to learn, about how this applied to moving hives a short distance in winter. He’d covered research on how bee brains work.

This was his reply “ regarding moving bees in the winter.
Bees will remember events related to foraging experiences (colour and scent) for up to 30 days, but as far as colony location is concerned, the memory lasts for around 2-3 weeks. If you get that spell of non flying weather, it will be pretty safe to move a hive. You may still get an occasional bee going back to the original place”

I’ve moved a colony just under a mile in spring but the landscape significantly changed so mass reorientation and I had no issues at all. Left a empty Nuc with used but empty comb on the original site for interest , no bees. Suspect moving a very short distance is trickier, so think if mildish weather persists I would move away first then bring back

I get the feeling that a great deal depends upon the available forage, and therefore forage routes, at the time of the move (short distance) and the terrain/immediate geography. Early last spring (mid march) I moved a hive around 1.5km, had been coldish and wet non flying weather for a few days before and stayed like it for a few days after. Over the next couple of weeks I found a lot of returners to the spot, left a box there for them after day two of better weather and just combined them with another hive that remained in that location.

 

[Charente beekeeper]

I just recently moved my 4 so we could fell a tree without risk of it falling on the hives in the process and move them to their new hive stand. I closed them up in the evening and left them for three days (i picked 3 days where the weather was likely to be bad and they wouldn't be flying anyway). On the final evening we opened the hives and placed branches of conifer in front just to make sure. Worked fine. No returnees to the old site about 5m away.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I condensed two apairys together twofields( 8 acres between) apart on the 4th of Jan it was 8c on that day and sunny opened them up straight away, some came out but didn't really fly very far it was then frost and cold for subsequent days and all was fine.
Ive moved nuced queen's in the summer and some of the flying bees have flown back about a 1 mile.
I've moved splits up on to the hills none fly back.
I think I would rather move colonys in the winter short distances and later in the year further apart.

 

[Antipodes]

We were told by the landowner of one of our apiary sites that we are going to have to move our hives to another part of the large walled garden where they are at present, due to some renovation work starting on an old large greenhouse at the beginning of April. We thought that the best way to tackle this would be to move the hives permanently to one of our other out apiaries, which is over 3 miles away, and bring the hives from there to the new position in the walled garden. Considering the time of year when would be the best time for the bees to be moved?

What I do is move the hives to the new site (can be close), and then put a weak hive from another apiary site (that is a good distance away), in the middle of the spot where the moved hives were (for a day or so). When I've done this, I return to find a nice full colony.... and then take it away, after locking it up in the evening. This might be an option for you to consider as you also have more than one apiary site. I do it in late September (your April), and October....perhaps a bit of nectar around helps it work well.

 

[Ambodach]

I wrote a query on this very topic 5 days earlier, and got good replies - I am tempted to say to the original poster here why didn't he look or do a search !

One thing that would be interesting to hear is how people move hives in these circumstances as they are heavy and pretty unobliging bits of kit!! I see reference to having them on a pallet, but in reality not that many of us are taking bees to farms, etc. nor have a pallet lifter.

I was fortunate as it is really fairly obvious that the colder the day the better. So for me this past Friday was to be 5C max. I had 2 hives to move 20m using a sack barrow - part on a concrete path, part over roughish ground. So to make the rough ground workable I put down on the previous day two long lengths of timber. Friday morning everything looked good, and then I found the unanticipated bonus that I got was that the cold snap brought a good covering of frost over the path I'd laid and sliding the loaded sack barrow over the icey timbers made the task a single person dawdle.