Have I done something wrong

[MikeT]

I looked through the glass crown board of my strongest stock today and the bees are now clustering with 6 or 7 lines. They are on a broad and a half with the super on the top. I was going to put it at the bottom but the hive I considered too heavy to manipulate in safety. So I removed the QE and left the super on top. The bees are clustered I would think in both the super and the brood box.

I have now realised the super may be of drone foundation, I do not want to check until I do the O. acid treatment next month. I am now worried the queen may start laying in the drone cells in the spring.

What should I do and when?

Mike

 

[REDWOOD]

Nothing to worry about, remove before bees become active next spring, some beekeepers use a frame of drone foundation in their hive to ensure a good quality drone are produced

 

[enrico]

You have not made things easy. What will happen is that the bees will eat the stores from the bb first, they will then start to work their way through the super with the drone foundation. The problem comes when the queen wants to lay around January. There is a chance that they wil 'convert' the comb to worker size cells. There is a chance that she might start to lay down in the bb where the brood could get chilled. If I was in your position and I knew both box's were full of stores I would swap them round. If that was totally out of the question then I think all you can do is keep your fingers crossed. Removing it early in the season is not an option as there will be some brood in it and the remains of your stores.
I will give it more thought and see if I can think of another option! Hope someone else can help you out
E

 

[itma]

You have not made things easy. ... If I was in your position and I knew both box's were full of stores I would swap them round. If that was totally out of the question then I think all you can do is keep your fingers crossed. Removing it early in the season is not an option as there will be some brood in it and the remains of your stores.
…

I think that swapping them round on a mild day asap is probably the least worst option. I don't think there is a 'good' option.
The fuller the DN box when they are swapped round, the better.

 

[MikeT]

Jed D told me to do this in October. At that time I did not have a spare floor. I tried to lift the whole hive off the floor, but it proved to be too heavy to lift and lower without causing too much of a bump. This colony is rather hot, so I thought I would leave well alone especially as I was going to use a broad and a half next year. It is only in the last couple of days that I discovered my shallow foundation is drone. However, I am not certain what is in the hive in question as it came from a couple of suppliers.

The colony is now in the super covering 6 or 7 frames. I would imagine it is also in the BB as well.

If the comb is worker I will leave well alone. To check this I could move the crown board a little to one side to remove the end frame from the super to determine what comb I had used, this should not disturb the bees.

What do you think? And thanks for your help.

 

[REDWOOD]

Jed D told me to do this in October. At that time I did not have a spare floor. I tried to lift the whole hive off the floor, but it proved to be too heavy to lift and lower without causing too much of a bump. This colony is rather hot, so I thought I would leave well alone especially as I was going to use a broad and a half next year. It is only in the last couple of days that I discovered my shallow foundation is drone. However, I am not certain what is in the hive in question as it came from a couple of suppliers.

The colony is now in the super covering 6 or 7 frames. I would imagine it is also in the BB as well.

If the comb is worker I will leave well alone. To check this I could move the crown board a little to one side to remove the end frame from the super to determine what comb I had used, this should not disturb the bees.

What do you think? And thanks for your help.

Unless you specifically asked for drone foundation you would get worker foundation but if you ordered it on line a mistake is easily done. I would go with have a quick check on a warm day soon but what to do if it is drone comb, if you have someone to give you a hand the boxes can be switched in seconds if both beekeepers know exactly their part in the operation.

The Element of risk is loosing your queen
Probability 10%

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Probability 10%

Does your swapping them over include a couple of drop-kicks or what?!

 

[enrico]

Unless you specifically asked for drone foundation you would get worker foundation but if you ordered it on line a mistake is easily done. I would go with have a quick check on a warm day soon but what to do if it is drone comb, if you have someone to give you a hand the boxes can be switched in seconds if both beekeepers know exactly their part in the operation.

The Element of risk is loosing your queen
Probability 10%

I think that is a bit high too! More like 0.0001 percent!
Your plan of action to check the foundation is good. But even on brood and a half I personally prefer my half to be under the bb. So......swap if you can. The final thing to do is make sure you have some fondant handy just in case there is not enough food in the box's . Give it to them as a Christmas present if necessary. Also make sure there is no QE involved!
Best of luck with whatever you do
E

 

[Arfermo]

QUOTE=enrico;450067]I think that is a bit high too! More like 0.0001 percent!
Your plan of action to check the foundation is good. But even on brood and a half I personally prefer my half to be under the bb. So......swap if you can. The final thing to do is make sure you have some fondant handy just in case there is not enough food in the box's . Give it to them as a Christmas present if necessary. Also make sure there is no QE involved!
Best of luck with whatever you do
E[/QUOTE]

[

 

[MikeT]

I have now placed the super under the BB. The bees were as hot as I expected, but no major problems as I managed to do the task in about 1 minute. I was correct in my assumption, I did have drown foundation which I did not order.

The super was completely full with, I would think in excess of 20 lbs of stores, The BB was also heavy weighing I would estimate 50 -60 lbs, so they should be OK for the time being.

I was going to requeen this colony next year but it seems so strong I will live with it for one more season!!

Thanks everyone for your advice and encouragement.

Mike

 

[enrico]

Well done mike. I think you did the best thing. The only problem that you may have now is that the only place that might not have had stores is the bottom of the bb. That is because it was at the very bottom before you swapped them. That now means that you may have a break in stores between the full super and the bb. If you have a see through crown board then use it just to make sure you can see that the bees have crossed the gap later in the season. It is just possible that they may not cross this gap and die of starvation despite having plenty of stores above the gap. I have to say this is very unlikely but just worth keeping an eye out for!
Well done
E

 

[MikeT]

Enrico

The bees were both in the Super and the brood box. I think the lines of bees stretch from the floor to the crown board. I was surprised by the weight I estimate the stores to be in excess of 70 lbs., So there must be a large amount in the BB. When I removed the Super the bees were not clustered in the BB but there were 5 -6 lines in the super.

I have never handled a hive which was so aggressive as this one. I new they were hot but not as much as today proved. I may have to requeen to be on the safe side.

Thanks for your advise and encouragement.

Mike

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have never handled a hive which was so aggressive as this one.

I wouldn't have expected anything different at this time of the yearand considering what you've done to them - wait until the good weather sets in next year before making that judgement

 

[Cazza]

JBM makes good sense. Any bees would be seriously p'd off at this time of year. Boy done good as we say in Suffolk.
Cazza

 

[MikeT]

As its been such an atrocious day in Norfolk today, I checked on where I obtained the drone foundation. I can confirm I did not order it but it came from a kit (hive, frames and foundation) from a supplier in the West Country.
The lesson learnt here is to check supplies as soon as received. I shall certainly do this in future to prevent further mishaps. I shall always insist on worker foundation in future, the advantage of drone foundation is so small its not worth it.

Mike

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

As its been such an atrocious day in Norfolk today, I checked on where I obtained the drone foundation. I can confirm I did not order it but it came from a kit (hive, frames and foundation) from a supplier in the West Country.
The lesson learnt here is to check supplies as soon as received. I shall certainly do this in future to prevent further mishaps. I shall always insist on worker foundation in future, the advantage of drone foundation is so small its not worth it.

Mike

When you inspect in spring if it has not been laid in take it away and use it when there is a heavy flow on, nice heavy comb for a good honey yield.