Hanging onto old Queen as backup

[BernardBlack]

Just a question about the old Queen, when introducing a new Queen.

Would it be possible to hang onto the old Queen in a cage, without making up a nuc for her?

Put her in a Queen cage (with some attendants), and keep her for a few days... until it’s certain the colony has accepted the new Queen?

And if so - How long would she last in a Queen cage?

And... Where best to keep the Queen cage?

Queens are sent in the post and that could take a day or two in transit in an envelope , so I figured it’s possible to do similar?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Why not a min nuc?
Or a three frame nuc with lots of attendants.
I've removed and kept some old queen's like this, mainly to use any eggs she would lay as the parent colonys were superseding.
I can't see why it wouldn't work if you just want to hold on to her. Just make sure they have stores and there strong enough to defend there keep!
Edit : I used attendance from the same colony so no need for the cage.

 

[Anduril]

As CGF, old queen in a mini nuc or nuc, you haven't said if it is a bought mated queen, supersedure, artificial swarm. Queen in a small cage will go off lay, queen in mini nuc or nuc with her bees will carry on laying.

 

[Patrick1]

You are asking a lot for a queen to be held in a cage with attendants until your new queen is released from her cage and stating to lay reliably. Maybe 2 weeks !

I find this works for me, place the old queen in a brood box above a crown board on the exciting hive, a notched crown board will do for the opening, split one frame of brood and somewhere to lay along with stores, no extra frames are needed. Use a follower board to close the hive space down, Face the new opening in the opposite direction to the hive below, put lots of bees in the top box almost as many as you can, the older bees will fly back to the bottom box anyway.

When you have decided the queen you want to keep just reunite with paper.

 

[Curly green finger's]

You are asking a lot for a queen to be held in a cage with attendants until your new queen is released from her cage and stating to lay reliably. Maybe 2 weeks !

I find this works for me, place the old queen in a brood box above a crown board on the exciting hive, a notched crown board will do for the opening, split one frame of brood and somewhere to lay along with stores, no extra frames are needed. Use a follower board to close the hive space down, Face the new opening in the opposite direction to the hive below, put lots of bees in the top box almost as many as you can, the older bees will fly back to the bottom box anyway.

When you have decided the queen you want to keep just reunite with paper.

I will have to try that way some time good idea

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I have heard of the odd report of a queen staying in a cage for ages - say after being lost in the post - and surviving OK, but it's not ideal.
Room temperature in the dark would be the best place to keep her.

 

[BernardBlack]

As CGF, old queen in a mini nuc or nuc, you haven't said if it is a bought mated queen, supersedure, artificial swarm. Queen in a small cage will go off lay, queen in mini nuc or nuc with her bees will carry on laying.

It’s a bought mated Queen.

The reason I asked was, I introduced a mated Queen last year and they didn’t accept her. So it’s just precautionary in case something similar might happen.

 

[Apiarist]

...a notched crown board will do for the opening,
...the older bees will fly back to the bottom box anyway.

When you have decided the queen you want to keep just reunite with paper.

Good idea, similar to what I do.
Only I drill a 16mm hole in the upper brood box and use a small (nuc) circular door, this enables me to turn one hive into a hive (lower) and nuc (upper), just remember that the upper brood box will have no forager bees at the end of the day, so you will likely need to feed a bit.

 

[Markthebuilder]

You are asking a lot for a queen to be held in a cage with attendants until your new queen is released from her cage and stating to lay reliably. Maybe 2 weeks !

I find this works for me, place the old queen in a brood box above a crown board on the exciting hive, a notched crown board will do for the opening, split one frame of brood and somewhere to lay along with stores, no extra frames are needed. Use a follower board to close the hive space down, Face the new opening in the opposite direction to the hive below, put lots of bees in the top box almost as many as you can, the older bees will fly back to the bottom box anyway.

When you have decided the queen you want to keep just reunite with paper.

I assume that if op was short of a brood box then a super would do and a comb of brood cut down to fit.

 

[Patrick1]

No, I hate the idea of using the "honey" super for brood, it just kicks the another problem further down the road, buy a cheap seconds pine brood box, in the long term it would pay you back. Maybe two supers with brood frames would work if you are desperate.

 

[Markthebuilder]

No, I hate the idea of using the "honey" super for brood, it just kicks the another problem further down the road, buy a cheap seconds pine brood box, in the long term it would pay you back. Maybe two supers with brood frames would work if you are desperate.

i take your point but op was asking about keeping a queen in a cage. Right or wrong I have made the assumption they are desperately short of equipment . Most have at least a floor ,bb, crown and a roof. So putting crown under the super with queen and some bees above would work as a temp solution. Whilst new queen is in bb below.
(Op could always go to brood and half later)

 

[BernardBlack]

i take your point but op was asking about keeping a queen in a cage. Right or wrong I have made the assumption they are desperately short of equipment . Most have at least a floor ,bb, crown and a roof. So putting crown under the super with queen and some bees above would work as a temp solution. Whilst new queen is in bb below.
(Op could always go to brood and half later)

I have the equipment. It was just the idea of making up a nuc if I thought a cage might suffice. Then the task of combining the nuc with original hive again, when old Q is squished.

 

[Curly green finger's]

No, I hate the idea of using the "honey" super for brood, it just kicks the another problem further down the road, buy a cheap seconds pine brood box, in the long term it would pay you back. Maybe two supers with brood frames would work if you are desperate.

Aye for a time but it can be rectified.
But much easier for beginners to use them and go onto double brood or just use the same size box with out excluders, which gives you lots of options.