frames supers and broods

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arwenevenstar

New Bee
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
8
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Location
Banbury
Hive Type
National
Hi,
can you help a beginner please.
I have two national hives and am looking to get my frames for both super and brood boxes. I can't believe I'm asking this as I've read all the books, but going onto the Thorne website there seems to be a multitude of frames under codes. I naievely thought I'd be going on the site and finding 'national' frames.

Can anyone please explain what I should be buying for a national hive without making me feel totally stupid please. Thanks
 
Keeping things simple
DN4 or 5 for brood frames (self spacing)
DN1 for brood frames (not self spacing) you will require spacers

SN4 for super (self spacing)
SN1 for supers (not self spacing) you will require spacers unless you use castellated super frame runners

There are other options but these are the most common
 
Keeping things simple
DN4 or 5 for brood frames (self spacing)
DN1 for brood frames (not self spacing) you will require spacers

SN4 for super (self spacing)
SN1 for supers (not self spacing) you will require spacers unless you use castellated super frame runners

There are other options but these are the most common


THANK YOU!

And thanks for the previous poster with the links for the sizing. That was all I needed! Wonderful!
 
D stands for deep and S stands for shallows. N stands for National.

Where you use them, and what for, is your choice. Both deeps and shallows can be used as broods or supers.

The different numbers refer to different components, both top and side bars mostly.
 
As with the Irish road directions "it would have been easier to start from somewhere else!"

No problem with the brood frames - DN4. The only sensible option is to go with the thicker topbars (DN5). Should be slightly stronger, but mainly you get a single (rather than 1.5) beespace between topbars.
You need 11 DN4s (or 5s) for each standard wooden national brood box (some polys take 10). And get a dummy board, in deep (brood box) size. (For future hives, make a copy out of ply - but it is NOT a standard frame with ply instead of foundation - its thinner, and flat.)


OK. The supers. First thing is to get the same width topbar as you have in the brood.
Then choose how you are going to space the frames.
Brood box spacing is about the depth of brood cells - and is set by the Hoffman spacers on the DN4 and 5 (which is why that is the sensible choice).
Super spacing is firstly about getting the combs drawn, then about getting them good and fat. Simplest is to use different spacings for these two phases.
My recommendation is to use (more hoffman) SN4s (or 5s if your brood uses 5s), on rails, 12 (yes 12) to the box to get them drawn, then transfer them to a box fitted with 10-slot castellations for filling fat. Using the Hoffmans gives you the possibility of going brood and a half at some time (should your bees need to), and you could even use other spacers to further fatten combs.
It ain't the only way, but I think its the best way to start. And that's the important thing, different schemes may make more sense after you have chosen some particular target or scheme - but for starting, and keeping your options open, I think this is the best way, and unlikely to give problems getting the bees to draw out comb in the supers (which can be a problem with new boxes, frames and bare foundation).


Changing a box between rails and castellations is very simple (and reversible) and the parts are cheap.
Thornes 'standard' castellations are for Thornes boxes (which have a little slot for them to fit into) and slightly longer than standard. Their Bees on a Budget castellations (only available in 10-slot) fit standard hives.

Download Thornes catalogue from their website.
It has more info than the website!
And a great couple of pages with more detail than you want right now on frame sizes and their parts. Different frame types are just different variations of the set of parts. There's surprisingly few different parts!
 

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