Foundation shelf life

[Chriszog]

Does foundation have a shelf life if it is not used?
Also what where is the best place for storage in all seasons.
Thanks

 

[andyphibb]

We store ours Flat wrapped up in clingfilm in a cool dark place all year round, I don't know how long but would think it would last for years.

 

[alldigging]

It says somewhere a quick blast with a hairdryer will refreshen up old stuff.

 

[REDWOOD]

Keep it in an air tight container/packaging and a quick blast with the hair drier will give the old stuff a new lease of life.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

waste of time and energy the hairdryer nonsense - when they want to draw it, they will. Had foundation sat in frames uncovered at the association apiary over winter, come spring there was no difficulty in getting them to draw it. as Redwood though, keep it in a closed container (airtight - ish) and it will last ages

 

[For want of a better word]

waste of time and energy the hairdryer nonsense - when they want to draw it, they will. Had foundation sat in frames uncovered at the association apiary over winter, come spring there was no difficulty in getting them to draw it. as Redwood though, keep it in a closed container (airtight - ish) and it will last ages

BUT do not put mothballs anywhere near it!!!!


Yeghes da

 

[Plenty of honey]

I was given some last year that had gone brittle and dried. It came (with a 12 framed extractor i got 15th hand i think) partially wrapped in brown paper, which was badly torn.
It must have been at least 20 years old. I melted down the first five frames as they shattered when i picked them up, however the rest i use to give to swarms.
Not a jot of differences between old and new. They drew it like a champ, 10 frames in 3 days, fed them well mind, but was an interesting exercise!!
I would say that the older it gets, unless you do what Redwood says, it becomes more difficult to handle.

 

[Tom Bick]

I was given some last year that had gone brittle and dried. It came (with a 12 framed extractor i got 15th hand i think) partially wrapped in brown paper, which was badly torn.
It must have been at least 20 years old. I melted down the first five frames as they shattered when i picked them up, however the rest i use to give to swarms.
Not a jot of differences between old and new. They drew it like a champ, 10 frames in 3 days, fed them well mind, but was an interesting exercise!!
I would say that the older it gets, unless you do what Redwood says, it becomes more difficult to handle.

Can you be sure they used it or simply built off the face of it?

A good test would be to cut a small hole and check the thickness of the midrib.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Can you be sure they used it or simply built off the face of it?

A good test would be to cut a small hole and check the thickness of the midrib.

To be honest , I couldn't tell you, and to be doubly honest, i really have never even considered that they use it, instead just build off of it! I know bees can re use wax but i was under the impression that this was uneconomical for bees to do. It was my way of thinking that they always built on it, and the bottom of each hexagonal became automatically the bottom of each cell? When ever i have scraped damaged cells by either wax moth or mice, or removed a little honey from frames to make them useable for swarm traps i have always scraped back to the foundation, so i would assume that means they have built on i ?
I believe your in to "foundation less" so you would know more Tom?
Interesting, please tell more?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When I was out in Lesotho, the only foundation I had available to me was trulty ancient stuff as hard as a board (even in temperatures of 30 degrees plus) I used it as foundation in broods and supers as well as starter strips in some instances. The bees took to it no problems - and we didn't have electric, let alone a hairdryer!!!

 

[Swarm]

Mine's in a box in the shed.

 

[Tom Bick]

To be honest , I couldn't tell you, and to be doubly honest, i really have never even considered that they use it, instead just build off of it! I know bees can re use wax but i was under the impression that this was uneconomical for bees to do. It was my way of thinking that they always built on it, and the bottom of each hexagonal became automatically the bottom of each cell? When ever i have scraped damaged cells by either wax moth or mice, or removed a little honey from frames to make them useable for swarm traps i have always scraped back to the foundation, so i would assume that means they have built on i ?
I believe your in to "foundation less" so you would know more Tom?
Interesting, please tell more?

Yes the intention is for them to use the wax but I would say they only use about half if at all depending on the wax and then add some of their own wax. When you cut through combs containing foundation you can see the thick midrib and when compared to foundation there's often no great difference. Also when you recover wax from combs of foundation and no foundation there is a noticeable difference on wax recovered.

Foundation probably provides the bees with more wax than they need and conditions dictate to the bees if it's more trouble to chew and mould the foundation or its easier to work with the wax the bees produce.

Your swarms on the old wax would have been so geared up to producing wax that they perhaps just built of the face of the old wax.

One thing I would say for foundation is the thick midrib has its uses and like you I have used this to scrape frames back to it but on frames of natural comb the midrib if that's what you can call it as its far from flat is as thin as the cell walls and very delicate.

 

[Honeybeeco]

Yes the intention is for them to use the wax but I would say they only use about half if at all depending on the wax and then add some of their own wax.

Well, you learn something new everyday. I always though full foundation sheets in the frame was used for them to build off of, not chew up and re use.

If we were to put drone cell embossed foundation in the frames in hive, do they remember to create drone cells on the bit they have eaten?

 

[Plenty of honey]

Yes the intention is for them to use the wax but I would say they only use about half if at all depending on the wax and then add some of their own wax. When you cut through combs containing foundation you can see the thick midrib and when compared to foundation there's often no great difference. Also when you recover wax from combs of foundation and no foundation there is a noticeable difference on wax recovered.

Foundation probably provides the bees with more wax than they need and conditions dictate to the bees if it's more trouble to chew and mould the foundation or its easier to work with the wax the bees produce.

Your swarms on the old wax would have been so geared up to producing wax that they perhaps just built of the face of the old wax.

One thing I would say for foundation is the thick midrib has its uses and like you I have used this to scrape frames back to it but on frames of natural comb the midrib if that's what you can call it as its far from flat is as thin as the cell walls and very delicate.

Makes complete sense Tom, Like you say when you get a good sized swarm, well fed, on a flow, i wouldn't think they would waste much time in messing around!

I cant cut up the old combs, as the approx 20 sheets i had left, as all are in use as we speak, however i will try and take out a frame next spring and see if it had a different mid rib after they have built comb, with it or on it.

Very interesting question you asked. Its worth starting a thread on this alone.
Do you know any scientific studies on mid rib percentage size and thickness used by swarms, if foundation is given and without? and whether the do infact use the foundation during different conditions. (Finman might know)
One might imagine that in a flow, they might be less fussy, as they need comb rapidly, the queen needs room and they have plenty of resources, so i imagine they hardly touch it then, just build on it!!

Got me thinking about something that we've all been looking at for years, but i have always assumed they just build to it!!

 

[Plenty of honey]

Well, you learn something new everyday. ?

You certainly do Honeybeeco!!

 

[Tom Bick]

Well, you learn something new everyday. I always though full foundation sheets in the frame was used for them to build off of, not chew up and re use.

If we were to put drone cell embossed foundation in the frames in hive, do they remember to create drone cells on the bit they have eaten?

The term drawing out foundation is often used by beekeepers so they will draw out the wax following the embossed cell size. In some situations they may replace drone cells for worker cells on drone foundation similar to situations where they replace worker with drone.

 

[Tom Bick]

Do you know any scientific studies on mid rib percentage size and thickness used by swarms, if foundation is given and without? and whether the do infact use the foundation during different conditions. (Finman might know)

No only my observations. The midrib on natural comb is as thin as the cell walls.

I think I know Finman opinion