Fondant or syrup?
- Thread starter johnmcc
- Start date
Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:
Winker
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1,365
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Bedfordshire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 22
does your hive need feeding? Have you had a look to see how much free space there is?
OP
johnmcc
House Bee
Not for a couple of weeks - big inspection tomorrow if the weather holds. When last I looked they were avidly taking the fondant and the hive wasn't as heavy when I hefted it as I expected. Didn't go down to the brood though. I thought a Spring feed with weak syrup was OK whatever. Am I wrong?
Winker
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1,365
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Bedfordshire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 22
I had 3 hives that i took full frames of store out of today and placed in frames of foundation. I thought mine were light untill i looked in and seen they were over run with food
rae
Field Bee
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2009
- Messages
- 826
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- Berkshire
- Hive Type
- 14x12
- Number of Hives
- 8 and 3 nucs...it's swarm time...
Hives are smelling of honey at the moment, so apart from the "hospital case", we stopped feeding a while back. They have the wild plum, hawthorn and willow now.
The big difference with syrup and fondant: they will store syrup. They will consume fondant. At the moment (if the need feeding), I would be giving them fondant.
The big difference with syrup and fondant: they will store syrup. They will consume fondant. At the moment (if the need feeding), I would be giving them fondant.
Winker
Drone Bee
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 1,365
- Reaction score
- 2
- Location
- Bedfordshire
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 22
i said the same but HM pointed me to this site:
http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm
My bees are still taking fondant quite happily. Should I be thinking about switching to weak sugar syrup any time soon?
Something to think about/observe.
Are your bees taking in/collecting water? An important observation to make. You can then better decide on a feeding strategy. Until then, you obviously don't have a clue. The answer will, perhaps, make you thinkand work out why they are doing what they are doing.
Something to think about/observe.
Are your bees taking in/collecting water? An important observation to make. You can then better decide on a feeding strategy. Until then, you obviously don't have a clue. The answer will, perhaps, make you thinkand work out why they are doing what they are doing.
Simple. First thing to do is answer the question. Then think about it. Should not be too difficult.
exmoorbee
New Bee
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2011
- Messages
- 40
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- Exmoor
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 7
i guess, if water is being brought in, it means they are eating stores, water needed to dilute it for consumption. if water not being brought in then they are eating nectar as it comes in, so worth while supering.
I'm not sure how to tell if they are bringing in water though?
I'm not sure how to tell if they are bringing in water though?
FreeFall
House Bee
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 358
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- North Wiltshire nr. Lyneham
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 6 plus a few nucs
I was just going to say the same thing exmoorbee. I actually like Rab's posts as they do make you think harder.
My bees always go to the same place for water, which is a pond about 30 feet away. I've tried putting a bowl closer (filled with pond water and sticks) but they ignore it. So if you know where they usually go, you should be able to tell.
My bees always go to the same place for water, which is a pond about 30 feet away. I've tried putting a bowl closer (filled with pond water and sticks) but they ignore it. So if you know where they usually go, you should be able to tell.
exmoorbee.
i guess, if water is being brought in, it means they are eating stores, water needed to dilute it for consumption.
Not quite right, but on the right track.
Next questions might be 'how do they manage, for say a couple monthes in the depths of winter, without water going in? and 'what has changed now, in spring, to make it necessary for them to collect water (if, indeed, they are)?' The answers are simple, as is all beekeeping (the difficult part is making the observations and picking the appropriate solution to any given problem).
i guess, if water is being brought in, it means they are eating stores, water needed to dilute it for consumption.
Not quite right, but on the right track.
Next questions might be 'how do they manage, for say a couple monthes in the depths of winter, without water going in? and 'what has changed now, in spring, to make it necessary for them to collect water (if, indeed, they are)?' The answers are simple, as is all beekeeping (the difficult part is making the observations and picking the appropriate solution to any given problem).
FreeFall,
OK, your bees are collecting water. That is good. Now... why do they need that water? What might happen if that supply were to 'dry up' (figuratively speaking) for several days, as in the weather changing such that it was impossible for the bees to fly?
RAB
OK, your bees are collecting water. That is good. Now... why do they need that water? What might happen if that supply were to 'dry up' (figuratively speaking) for several days, as in the weather changing such that it was impossible for the bees to fly?
RAB
FreeFall
House Bee
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 358
- Reaction score
- 1
- Location
- North Wiltshire nr. Lyneham
- Hive Type
- National
- Number of Hives
- 6 plus a few nucs
I would say most of the water is going to the brood, of which there was a lot when I took a look today. They are racking in the pollen but only tiny amounts of nectar. So, if things were to dry up because they couldn't fly - perhaps they might venture up to a feeder of weak syrup, that the wise, weather-watching beek, would have placed above the crownboard?
Or something else entirely?
Nick
Spot on. No nectar or water, no brood. Simple as that.
OK there will be reduced brooding (but not wholesale), and if the weather catches out this rash of early brooding, it would very sharply slow or almost halt the spring expansion. So a water supply to enable the bees to use honey (only 20% water) as opposed to nectar (which is more likely 50%) is a requirement for the bees, if heavy brooding is to occur, until an adequate supply of nectar comes along.
Mine, at inspection, had some nectar coming in, but there are many bees collecting water, so they are either moving honey nearer the brood nest (or the nest is expanding) for the purpose of larvae feeding.
After all, when you think about it, relatively little stores are used up in the depths of winter, with little or no brooding and only thermal energy required from the stored honey; so no point in adding any more water than necessary (reduces the effective heat content by the latent heat of evaporation of the water present).
This may be one reason why the bees will readily consume fondant (11% water) in preference to honey (20% water). An added advantage of fondant might be a drier hive (less water vapour generated), but the downside is a shortage of brooding space.
It is bees that will collect a surplus of nectar (as honey), so the early crops (like OSR) may be wasted, as a large harvestable surplus will not be achieved if the hive is expanding rapidly during the flow - needing most of the collected nectar (from the lesser foraging force) to support the useless (for foraging) nurse bees and brood.
Then, surprise, surprise, at the end of the OSR there is a huge surplus of house bees (under three weeks old) - and emerging brood is also adding to that problem; there is no prospect, at the time, for foraging duties for all those up-coming foragers, so they go into swarm mode. Simple really.
RAB
OK there will be reduced brooding (but not wholesale), and if the weather catches out this rash of early brooding, it would very sharply slow or almost halt the spring expansion. So a water supply to enable the bees to use honey (only 20% water) as opposed to nectar (which is more likely 50%) is a requirement for the bees, if heavy brooding is to occur, until an adequate supply of nectar comes along.
Mine, at inspection, had some nectar coming in, but there are many bees collecting water, so they are either moving honey nearer the brood nest (or the nest is expanding) for the purpose of larvae feeding.
After all, when you think about it, relatively little stores are used up in the depths of winter, with little or no brooding and only thermal energy required from the stored honey; so no point in adding any more water than necessary (reduces the effective heat content by the latent heat of evaporation of the water present).
This may be one reason why the bees will readily consume fondant (11% water) in preference to honey (20% water). An added advantage of fondant might be a drier hive (less water vapour generated), but the downside is a shortage of brooding space.
It is bees that will collect a surplus of nectar (as honey), so the early crops (like OSR) may be wasted, as a large harvestable surplus will not be achieved if the hive is expanding rapidly during the flow - needing most of the collected nectar (from the lesser foraging force) to support the useless (for foraging) nurse bees and brood.
Then, surprise, surprise, at the end of the OSR there is a huge surplus of house bees (under three weeks old) - and emerging brood is also adding to that problem; there is no prospect, at the time, for foraging duties for all those up-coming foragers, so they go into swarm mode. Simple really.
RAB
Similar threads
