First inspection

[beeno]

Ok

A. If the one that was piping is uncapped I will assume there is a virgin queen there and destroy all others and leave them alone.

B. If it is still capped and there are no other capped ones I will destroy all others and leave alone.

C. If it and one other is still capped I will split them. Leave the good capped one in position a with the flying bees and some brood. The other capped one I will put in the new position with most of the brood.

How does that sound?

Hi Levitt,
Through no fault of your own you are right in at the deep end! This is your baptism of fire.
If you have heard piping (have you checked out on the internet what it sounds like), then queen/s are ready to emerge and the prime swarm went about 7 days ago.
I am concerned that you have a good strong colony there that is able to throw casts in a situation when you are not supposed to meddle to much with them.
I would assume that Plan A is going to be your most likely scenario. However, if you do find other queen cells being protected by workers (i.e. queen inside is still alive) I would make up a nuc with one or two of them as your fall back position in case she does not mate well in main hive. Do make sure you don't transfer a virgin as well on the frames. Look out for casts. Best of luck.
Do be mindful of casts though. Best of luck.

 

[Levitt53]

Thanks for your words. Yes no my fault indeed and weather now is not helping as it's very windy here now. I'll get in there on Sunday hopefully and see what is happening.

Is there anyway I can tell the difference between the virgin queen and the other bees? I know she won't be as big as a mature queen but is she a different shape at all?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for your words. Yes no my fault indeed and weather now is not helping as it's very windy here now. I'll get in there on Sunday hopefully and see what is happening.

Is there anyway I can tell the difference between the virgin queen and the other bees? I know she won't be as big as a mature queen but is she a different shape at all?

get in there ASAP - wind doesn't matter - open up all the QC's and release the virgins - if they're all running around the hive at once they'll just fight it out amongst themselves leaving the winner to head the colony without needing to swarm.

In all probability Sunday will be too late.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes that's the best way. I've done it myself for somebody else and it works but you have to do it now.

 

[beeno]

Hi Levitt,
Whilst I agree that you should get in there ASAP, I don't see the point in springing the virgins, as if you are in the position to do so you may as well put them safely into a nuc. This ensures that you have a back up plan and reduces the risk of casts. Also, it reduces the stress on the colony and the victor. Some people may be very keen on c'ock fights' I am not.There are people on the forum that have done it and still had casts.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

is 'casts' the word of they day?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Levitt,
Whilst I agree that you should get in there ASAP, I don't see the point in springing the virgins, as if you are in the position to do so you may as well put them safely into a nuc. This ensures that you have a back up plan and reduces the risk of casts. Also, it reduces the stress on the colony and the victor. Some people may be very keen on c'ock fights' I am not.There are people on the forum that have done it and still had casts.

But beeno, putting virgins in nucs is all very well but you have to catch them. The act of opening the hive often disrupts the guarding bees and off they go. You might as well spring the others. So you catch three or four and close up thinking job done and four days later off they go.
The point of springing them is that they do not cast. They don't necessarily fight it out either. They are often assassinated.

 

[Fatbee]

They are often assassinated.

Yes quite a sight seeing queens balled.

 

[Levitt53]

Ok as a newbee that seems quite a simple thing to do. I'm at work now but could do it this evening or in the morning. Fingers crossed. I'm getting a swarm in a nuc next week anyway so will have some options if all goes pear shaped.

 

[beeno]

But beeno, putting virgins in nucs is all very well but you have to catch them. The act of opening the hive often disrupts the guarding bees and off they go. You might as well spring the others. So you catch three or four and close up thinking job done and four days later off they go.
The point of springing them is that they do not cast. They don't necessarily fight it out either. They are often assassinated.

It may well only be one virgin that has emerged? The workers will keep them in their cells if they want to throw several casts and it takes some days for hardening off. Workers are not that keen to give up on the QC's they are guarding in my experience and if that is the case why spring them to fight or be balled when you can make use of them and avoid depleting the colony. Considering that most beeks would not be able to tell if a prime swarm had gone if it wasn't for the other clues I do not hold out much hope for anyone being able to ascertain if a small cast or two had left either i.e. if springing is successful. If the colony consider that it can afford to throw some casts it will do so regardless. However, springing makes the beek feel that he has done something I guess.

 

[Levitt53]

get in there ASAP - wind doesn't matter - open up all the QC's and release the virgins - if they're all running around the hive at once they'll just fight it out amongst themselves leaving the winner to head the colony without needing to swarm.

In all probability Sunday will be too late.

If I open up cells that are not ready presumably they will die. If the cast has already gone (which I doubt it as the weather is not that nice here) then how do I know I'm not leaving them queenless. If the one that was piping is still capped then isn't it better to leave her be and just destroy the others? Not questioning anybody but just trying to get it all straight in my head.

Also by 'open up' I assume you mean to just take the end off the cell.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It may well only be one virgin that has emerged? The workers will keep them in their cells if they want to throw several casts and it takes some days for hardening off. Workers are not that keen to give up on the QC's they are guarding in my experience and if that is the case why spring them to fight or be balled when you can make use of them and avoid depleting the colony. Considering that most beeks would not be able to tell if a prime swarm had gone if it wasn't for the other clues I do not hold out much hope for anyone being able to ascertain if a small cast or two had left either i.e. if springing is successful. If the colony consider that it can afford to throw some casts it will do so regardless. However, springing makes the beek feel that he has done something I guess.

Fair enough but just how would a beginner be expected to make use of ten or more virgin queens?

Also by 'open up' I assume you mean to just take the end off the cell.

I find it easier to take out the QC and let the new queen back out rather than trying to get the end off which is surprisingly tough even when thinned down by the workers

 

[Levitt53]

Fair enough but just how would a beginner be expected to make use of ten or more virgin queens?



I find it easier to take out the QC and let the new queen back out rather than trying to get the end off which is surprisingly tough even when thinned down by the workers

Great thanks. I read a great article this evening so it all makes complete sense to me now. Going in tomorrow morning. Blimey this is a steep learning curve.

 

[beeno]

Fair enough but just how would a beginner be expected to make use of ten or more virgin queens?

He does not have the facilities or the bees to do that, but it would be good insurance to make up a nuc/apidea in case the queen in the parent colony does not mate successfully rather than wasting all but one which springing them all would involve. It is still cold weather in some parts of the country.
Maybe he can sell them as there appear to be some business opportunities pending on the forum.

 

[beeno]

If I open up cells that are not ready presumably they will die. If the cast has already gone (which I doubt it as the weather is not that nice here) then how do I know I'm not leaving them queenless. If the one that was piping is still capped then isn't it better to leave her be and just destroy the others? Not questioning anybody but just trying to get it all straight in my head.

Also by 'open up' I assume you mean to just take the end off the cell.

They will have let one virgin out, so the one you heard piping will be out by now and you can confirm that as the opened queen cell will probably still be there. You can confirm how many has emerged as you work your way through. As you do that I would put the frames with queen cells on in a nuc for the time being as it might save you the trouble of springing some of them.
Say, if you took all the sealed queen cells out and you thought you only had one emerged virgin in there, she would be piping to challenge the other virgins, and they would answer. If she pipes and there is no answer then she is on her own.
Since you are trawling through the hive, do make up a nuc with one queen cell/virgin as it is always good to have a reserve in case she does not get mated.

You have in actual fact three alternatives.
1. Many beeks, and they are not so called natural beekeepers, leave hives to requeen themselves stating that it is supersedure regardless and leave the bees to get on with it. Consequences of this is a lot of swarming which is an inconvenience to the general public if the swarm for example ends up in someones cavity wall and little honey and small colonies for the beek.
2. Springing - but I would still make up a nuc.
3. Try to ensure that you have only one virgin in colony by listening to piping which I have done successfully. However, I had the advantage of having marked one virgin as I put her back in the colony as I subsequently had to find her because there was one piping and the other one was answering.
Best of luck for tomorrow.

 

[Levitt53]

Ok inspection done in slightly inclement weather. 9 QCs taken out. 8 were open with nothing in. 1 was capped and had larvae in (I probably would have ended up killing a virgin queen if I'd found one as I was a bit ham fisted with my Stanley knife). Lots of bees. It's been cool and windy today and yesterday so I don't think they would have gone. Sit and wait now I guess. I'm picking up a swarm in the week so I could put some eggs from that in there to see if emergency queens cells are made. Anything else I can do now do you think.?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok inspection done in slightly inclement weather. 9 QCs taken out. 8 were open with nothing in. 1 was capped and had larvae in (I probably would have ended up killing a virgin queen if I'd found one as I was a bit ham fisted with my Stanley knife). Lots of bees. It's been cool and windy today and yesterday so I don't think they would have gone. Sit and wait now I guess. I'm picking up a swarm in the week so I could put some eggs from that in there to see if emergency queens cells are made. Anything else I can do now do you think.?

If you're lucky the virgin queens will have sorted themselves out, if not I reckon you've lost or are going to lose a cast. Nothing you can do about it now, just wait until she gets mated.Leave alone for four weeks.

 

[shazzer]

It looks like Earwig poop, but bigger can shrews gain access.

I have identified the Scat pellets and they are wax moth pellets.