Feeding Water in the Winter?

[Murox]

I have never looked into a poly hive (what an admission!) during winter. Are there any other "anomalies" that can be observed ? eg temperature dependent behaviours/activities beyond loose clustering. How great an effect does that have on an earlier spring buildup(or is that still dependant upon pollen and nectar availability?)

 

[SDM]

All other things being equal, the biggest factor affecting spring build up is how much brood a colony can keep warm . Colony size and contents of the hive( honey frames will retain heat when temps fall suddenly) and level of insulation will all affect how much brood can be supported.

 

[Finman]

. How great an effect does that have on an earlier spring buildup(or is that still dependant upon pollen and nectar availability?)

Bees are eager to rear brood in spring. It starts when they get pollen, or hive has big pollen stores after winter. Speed of build up depends on size of cluster. A small cluster never has fast build up even is you give pollen.

When first generation of brood has emerged, hive has lots of new nurser bees. Then the size of the colony and warm hive rules, how many brood frames bees can nurse.

Poor weather hinders brood rearing, what ever you do, because bees has saving instinct then on, when nature does not give food.

It takes 1.5 months = 6 weeks that eggs become foragers.
.

If hive is short of pollen, they eate larvae to get protein.
.

 

[Murox]

Thanks Finman and SDM - basically as I thought really, no significant differences other than a warmer more stable environment; leading to more easily maintained warmer conditions for early brood.

 

[Finman]

Thanks Finman and SDM - basically as I thought really, no significant differences other than a warmer more stable environment; leading to more easily maintained warmer conditions for early brood.

Bees do not rear early brood without pollen. When they get pollen from nature, those are normal brood, and not "early brood". Carniolan race use to have pollen stored to early brooding compared to Italians. Insulated boxes help to keep more brood than cold boxes. Nights are cold.
.

 

[Finman]

no significant differences other than a warmer more stable environment; .

IT is significant when the colony gets one box or more honey in early summer.
.

 

[john t]

why would you want to feed water in the winter ? there is no need , most hives are quite humid in the winter months due to the consumption of honey and ambient air conditions they do not need extra water to consume their stores

bees can be confined for 4 or 5 months during the winter without them leaving the hive, take a look at the Canadian beekeepers blog his bees are in a shed all winter

what has not been mentioned here is bees require water for cooling and maintaining the correct temperature/humidity especially when they are brood rearing

so a source of water nearby is a good idea

 

[Finman]

what has not been mentioned here is bees require water for cooling and maintaining the correct temperature/humidity especially when they are brood rearing

first of all they need water from outside to make larva juice.

 

[john t]

first of all they need water from outside to make larva juice.

my point is - you dont need to be concerned during the winter months about supplying the bees with water, but make sure there is a supply nearby for when they need it.

 

[Finman]

my point is - you dont need to be concerned during the winter months about supplying the bees with water, but make sure there is a supply nearby for when they need it.

Soil and lawn are so moist that they will get water.
They do not need human's help to find water.

 

[john t]

Soil and lawn are so moist that they will get water.
They do not need human's help to find water.

i agree - summer months maybe be different depending on your location

 

[Murox]

Bees do not rear early brood without pollen. When they get pollen from nature, those are normal brood, and not "early brood". Carniolan race use to have pollen stored to early brooding compared to Italians. Insulated boxes help to keep more brood than cold boxes. Nights are cold.
.

Well pointed out. My use of the words "early brood" was not to imply anything other than normal .

 

[Beefriendly]

How great an effect does that have on an earlier spring buildup(or is that still dependant upon pollen and nectar availability?)

Quite a complex question, spring build up is usually far better in poly hives than wood, but the full rationale why is complex.
Bees in poly/insulated hives overwinter using far less stores than those in un-insulated. Suggesting they don't do as much work in generating heat; perhaps meaning many more of these long lived winter bees are not shagged out by spring and may live even longer (this is speculation on my part, but not unreasonable). I generally find far less dead bees on the mesh floors come spring (although this might be tempered by the number of undertaker bees per hive. But generally I think more survive and are fitter, which helps kick start the spring build up. Nectar is less important if there are stores, but pollen or it's equivalent are essential for rapid spring build up (add in extra complications of area where you live/spring weather conditions and distance to nearest available pollen sources)
The lower heat loss from poly means less bees are needed to maintain brood temperatures and hence (assuming queen is up to it) she can lay more brood early. So an equivalent sized colony in poly can maintain brood heat over a greater area than one in wood, which helps kick start the colony spring increase. There are also more early season foragers to get things off to a flying start.
When I compared similar sized colonies in poly alongside wood my first inspections showed that those in poly where miles ahead. Notes from 6-7 years back show those in wood by April where on 2-3 frames of brood whereas those in poly where on 6-7.
I know others who have done similar comparisons have found similar results.
There are probably other complex parts to this equation.

 

[Finman]

I have fed pollen patty 25 years, but I have never started to feed water. There is a limit somewhere what I am willing to do. Once all larvae have died when bees did not get water during the whole week.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finny has it nailed. Internal hive temperatures do not need water for cooling in winter or spring. Larvae are high water content (check them out - they are very squishy!). Bees need water in spring when brooding heavily and relying on honey as the energy input. Dead bees, due to low temps, is not conducive to attaining a water supply back to the hive. Simple, really. A close, warm supply of water is a help for the bees, even if it is supplied by the beekeeper.

 

[Finman]

First bees needed water in winter, but now in summer. Very complex such beekeeping.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you live in such an arid wasteland that you need to supply water to the bees all year round it begs the question what's the point in keeping bees there.

 

[Murox]

I suspect that like most of natures beings bees are opportunists - whilst they do not necessarily need to be provided with water they do prefer WARM water (around 18 degrees I recall reading was their preference) - so they will revert to cannibalistic tactics if the going gets really tough, and take moisture from fresh animal dung etc etc.

 

[Murox]

Quite a complex question, spring build up is usually far better in poly hives than wood, but the full rationale why is complex.
Bees in poly/insulated hives overwinter using far less stores than those in un-insulated. Suggesting they don't do as much work in generating heat; perhaps meaning many more of these long lived winter bees are not shagged out by spring and may live even longer (this is speculation on my part, but not unreasonable). I generally find far less dead bees on the mesh floors come spring (although this might be tempered by the number of undertaker bees per hive. But generally I think more survive and are fitter, which helps kick start the spring build up. Nectar is less important if there are stores, but pollen or it's equivalent are essential for rapid spring build up (add in extra complications of area where you live/spring weather conditions and distance to nearest available pollen sources)
The lower heat loss from poly means less bees are needed to maintain brood temperatures and hence (assuming queen is up to it) she can lay more brood early. So an equivalent sized colony in poly can maintain brood heat over a greater area than one in wood, which helps kick start the colony spring increase. There are also more early season foragers to get things off to a flying start.
When I compared similar sized colonies in poly alongside wood my first inspections showed that those in poly where miles ahead. Notes from 6-7 years back show those in wood by April where on 2-3 frames of brood whereas those in poly where on 6-7.
I know others who have done similar comparisons have found similar results.
There are probably other complex parts to this equation.

I like your thinking. As you suggest its bound to be more complex but the results you and others have observed speak for themselves.

 

[GuyNir]

I’d say when it comes to water - leave the bees to manage themselves.