emergency queens and swarms

[Bakerbee]

Do bees, after raising an emergency queen(due to queen loss) then swarm with further emerging queens. I ask this as we lost a queen from one of our nucs a few weeks back. Whilst waiting for a new uk bought queen to be ready we left the hive to carry on raising a queen and would sort the situation out once new queen arrived. Today i arrived home to find a swarm/cast in my apple tree with 6 yes 6 virgins in it. I have housed this swarm, dispatched 5 queens left one and fed. Off to check the original hive i go, and what do i find but 2 virgin queens running around. So i dispatched one and left one. When my new queen arrives i will sort them out and recombine. I know i should have pinched out all the queen cells bar 1 or 2 yes but i just didnt have time. I did think however once the first queen emerges she goes and kills all the others, is that false then? Also im fairly certain this is the only swarm to leave as of the numbers of bees left in the nuc cant account for s primary snd secondary. And why would bees raising a new wieen want to swarm anyway. Im confused.

 

[JWF]

If the think the colony is big enough to swarm and create a new colony, then that's what they'll do. If they're short of space that's also another thing that promotes swarming.

The new queen will only kill the others if the colony is too small to throw a swarm, though some strains of bees are known to swarm repeatedly until the original colony is too small to be viable, so even that isn't guaranteed.

As to why do they want to swarm - it's how they reproduce as a species, they will try to do it when they get the chance.

Edited to add : I only leave 1 QC whenever I have a colony without a queen which is raising its own replacement queen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They obviously do.
Maybe it depends under what circumstances they were produced.
If you make a split Wally Shaw has it that the side with emergency cells can be left and the few times I did his method of AS they did not swarm but sorted themselves out despite producing many queen cells . In a full hive I would expect there to be some other trigger for them to swarm. I’m sure somebody else has the answer

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When a colony swarms, the remaining bees, although there may already be many QC's in the hive, will panic at being queenless and make more 'emergency' QC's.
To a bee, a queen cell is a queen cell, so if conditions are right, regardless of what we label the situation they will swarm, or throw casts. It's in their DNA.
Smaller colonies (such as walk away splits) tend not to - but unless you sit outside the hive every daylight hour, how can you be certain they don't swarm?

 

[Bakerbee]

Thanks all, jenkins that makes total sense about bees seeing qc and it triggers their impulse. I didnt think the nuc was that full for any normal swarm due to space. It was a caught cast that had settled and requeened. Due to our negligence we lost our bought amm during inspection. Up until then they had been settled and fine. On 3 frames of bias and building two frames either side of stores with a spare frame of drawn. We are waiting for another queen due this next week to arrive. Im hoping to then go through the original and swarmed hives pinch out the two scrub queens introduce our new one and then combine. Have i missed anything? Cheers

 

[beeno]

If the think the colony is big enough to swarm and create a new colony, then that's what they'll do. If they're short of space that's also another thing that promotes swarming.

The new queen will only kill the others if the colony is too small to throw a swarm, though some strains of bees are known to swarm repeatedly until the original colony is too small to be viable, so even that isn't guaranteed.

As to why do they want to swarm - it's how they reproduce as a species, they will try to do it when they get the chance.

Edited to add : I only leave 1 QC whenever I have a colony without a queen which is raising its own replacement queen.

with all of the above. I would also like to add environmental conditions as the bees don't go by calendar but the weather. Warm summer weather here +23 forecast for the day and warm for the next week or so and ivy flow still to come perfect for swarming in the short term. I guess they don't know that there are few drones about. I left 6 emergency cells in a depleted nuc I made up and that worked, but would not attempt it in a full one. Live and learn and be careful whose advice you take. Hard work this beekeeping lark!

 

[Millet]

with all of the above. I would also like to add environmental conditions as the bees don't go by calendar but the weather. Warm summer weather here +23 forecast for the day and warm for the next week or so and ivy flow still to come perfect for swarming in the short term. I guess they don't know that there are few drones about. I left 6 emergency cells in a depleted nuc I made up and that worked, but would not attempt it in a full one. Live and learn and be careful whose advice you take. Hard work this beekeeping lark!

I still have plenty of drones buzzing about..

 

[beeno]

I still have plenty of drones buzzing about..

That's good with your record you probably need them.

 

[Bakerbee]

For learning purposes only. If you leave 6 qc in a nuc how do you stop them swarming further cast swarms with each queens emergence.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For learning purposes only. If you leave 6 qc in a nuc how do you stop them swarming further cast swarms with each queens emergence.

Size of the colony should dictate that they shouldn’t cast. They need to leave a viable colony behind. Sometimes a big colony can cast so often that it casts itself into trouble but it’s not likely in a nuc.

 

[Bakerbee]

Thanks ericA so much to learn. But still love this hobby.

 

[beeno]

For learning purposes only. If you leave 6 qc in a nuc how do you stop them swarming further cast swarms with each queens emergence.

If this was directed to my comment. The nuc I made up was too weak to swarm, so first queen out killed all the others in their cells by stinging them to death. You can tell because they are opened from the side. I am not in the habit of doing this, but I thought I try it once. Also, I don't have swarmy bees so far.