Early swarming or supercedure?

[WingCommander]

I tore down 6 QC from one of my hives yesterday - 3 capped. Feels a little early for swarming but it is a strong hive and was a little cramped (2 supers now on - one added yesterday). I didn't see the queen during the inspection but saw her last week and there were no QC (that I saw) last weekend. I started to get a nasty feeling that maybe they were cells thrown up as something had happened to the queen. I remarked her last week and she wandered off but just thought I would get some views on it. All cells were low down on the frame, which to me indicates normal QC. I plan to check the hive again in a few days and have a good look for her and more QC.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I tore down 6 QC from one of my hives yesterday - 3 capped. Feels a little early for swarming but it is a strong hive and was a little cramped (2 supers now on - one added yesterday). I didn't see the queen during the inspection but saw her last week and there were no QC (that I saw) last weekend. I started to get a nasty feeling that maybe they were cells thrown up as something had happened to the queen. I remarked her last week and she wandered off but just thought I would get some views on it. All cells were low down on the frame, which to me indicates normal QC. I plan to check the hive again in a few days and have a good look for her and more QC.

Were there any fresh eggs in the hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

Very simple. No eggs since a week ago might indicate emergency cells (but generally more than sixare produced). Fewer (1-3) would indicate supercedure (and likely eggs still being produced). No new eggs in the last three days indicates queenie has been slimmed down for swarming.

Whether she has gone might depend on the prevailing weather conditions, but capped cells is an ominous sign.

You have possibly made your colony hopelessly Q- by your actions before thinking. Good luck. I expect they have gone for lack of brooding space. Most usual reason at this time of the year.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Snip

Whether she has gone might depend on the prevailing weather conditions, but capped cells is an ominous sign.

You have possibly made your colony hopelessly Q- by your actions before thinking. Good luck. I expect they have gone for lack of brooding space. Most usual reason at this time of the year.

My thinking too someone (possibly you) once said knocking down all queen cells is rarely a reasoned reaction.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Were the queen cells from the foundation or the face of the comb ?
Where in the country are you ?
Do you have drones ?

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[drex]

I agree.
Never knock down queen cells without thinking about what is going on, and always checking first to see whether HM or eggs are seen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And have a read of this
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[WingCommander]

I've obviously made a mistake, again. I will check the hive again today and see what I can learn.

 

[pargyle]

I've obviously made a mistake, again. I will check the hive again today and see what I can learn.

The trouble is that a lot of beekeepers will tell you to knock down queen cells ... and it's lousy advice. Goodness only knows where this idea comes from ? I've even heard an old beekeeper suggesting it as an AS measure ! Yeh .. it will stop them for about a week if you are lucky - then without warning they will be off !

If I find more than one queen cell and I'm not sure about whether it's superscedure or swarming I tend to do an AS anyway if I can find the queen. Or, as a safety measure move one of the queen cells to a nuc with a frame or two and some nurse bees. I never knock all the queen cells down ..

But .. don't beat yourself up - virtually anything in beekeeping can be fixed .. as long as you have more than one hive/colony.

 

[foghornleghorn]

@op was there any eggs present, if there was nothing at all wrong with what you did

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There definitely was something wrong NEVER tear down all the QC's without confirming the presence of the Queen.
Giving bad advice just to avoid hurting the op's feelings doesn't help anyone

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[colinc]

I started with a nuc late April last year ended up with swarm cells late June. On advice I knocked down cells (I did find the queen before I did this at least) to buy time I did not intend to repeat but was going to split. The swarm beat me to it. I was fortunate caught and hived my own bees,......and then they threw a cast!

The article above would have saved me loads of trouble.

You live and learn [emoji6]

The bees and the forum will teach you, even if retrospectively.....[emoji24][emoji24]


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[Erichalfbee]

The trouble with knocking down queen cells, having found the queen of course, is that it might just accelerate swarming.
Bees can make queen cells on 3 day larvae. If they do then that's two days to capping. When you go back in a week later they have been gone 5 days.

 

[WingCommander]

Update: Almost 100% sure the old queen is gone. Sad. I marked her and she wandered off happily last week but I must have done something to end her as I put the hive back together.

On a more positive note there were several more QC in the hive so I decided to leave as is. I had taken a nuc. down just in case so I have left this near the hive, also just in case of a swarm. Oh well. Live and learn...

 

[Erichalfbee]

I had taken a nuc. down just in case so I have left this near the hive, also just in case of a swarm. Oh well. Live and learn...

Split into two with one QC in each?
That way you have double the chance of a mating and can re-unite if one fails and you won't lose a swarm.

 

[WingCommander]

Rather helpfully both QC on one frame...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh dear.......
It's a funny old year
Quite a few people are getting queen cells in their top Bailey boxes where their queens are.

 

[oliver90owner]

On a more positive note there were several more QC in the hive

I don't consider two as being 'several'. How many planes are in a 'wing'? Two or several?

 

[WingCommander]

Really?