Duff Queen

[Morgan968]

Hi Everyone

I went and checked one of my hives today, and its been a little troublesome with laying lots of drone brood and for the last 2 inspections I have found what seem to be supersedure cells. The first time i found this I knocked it down thinking it was them trying to swarm but the fact everyone other queen cup had no eggs within. Anyway found another one today so I've left it for now until I have worked out what to do, basically I do have great hopes for the current queen, compared to all my other hives her laying pattern is rubbish and today hardly found eggs and did seem a bit bitty.

So my question is, is it better to see if they use the queen cell I have left to supersedue the original queen or is it better for me to destroy the queen and let them build one up?

Also on a note regarding all the drone brood, now the frames are dotted with loads of drone cells, should I look at replacing these frames with new foundation so they draw it as worker cells or will they change them back to worked size?

 

[Erichalfbee]

So you have a queen running out of sperm and turning drone layer
All the worker bees are now old and all you have to come are drones. If the bees do manage to raise a queen it will be a month before she starts laying and the bees are geriatric and unable to look after brood.
You have other hives so just shake them out and take the hive away

 

[Morgan968]

So you have a queen running out of sperm and turning drone layer
All the worker bees are now old and all you have to come are drones. If the bees do manage to raise a queen it will be a month before she starts laying and the bees are geriatric and unable to look after brood.
You have other hives so just shake them out and take the hive away

Just shaking them out and walking away with the other hives seems a little of a waste of a hive to be honest, considering they have drawn, a full brood 14x12 and now one super in about a month, Basically i got this over wintered nuc along with 3 others but this particular one, the queens laying pattern started to become drone heavy in the first 2 weeks, the drone brood has laid off a bit now and some of the frames are showing some solid worker pattern but she dosnt seem to be laying as many eggs as I see in the other hives and along with the fact there is lots of drones/Brood, now finding today her laying seems to be slowing a bit, I only collected this over wintered nucs start of April

 

[Erichalfbee]

So how much is worker brood?

 

[Morgan968]

So how much is worker brood?

There is worker brood on most of the frames apart from the end ones which has stores, The more you go into the brood nest the more worker brood there is. Its completely different pattern to all the other hives I have which is why I first had the concern something isnt right with the queen.

On 3 of the frames there are some decent slabs of worker brood but the rest are very bitty

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well then if they have a decent amount of worker brood either let them supersede (you might as well leave her in there if she is still laying) or put in a new mated queen.

 

[Morgan968]

Well then if they have a decent amount of worker brood either let them supersede (you might as well leave her in there if she is still laying) or put in a new mated queen.

to be honest when i did read you first comment i thought maybe i should purchase a new queen and place her in, I've already had to carry out 2 splits out of the 4 over wintered nuc's which has put them back, so if i can still keep 2 of them growing would be nice.

Where would you advise is the best place for mated queens?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It depends what you want
The usual suppliers will have queens
I’ve had queens from BS Honeybees and they were fine. They gave them in stock

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is worker brood on most of the frames apart from the end ones which has stores, The more you go into the brood nest the more worker brood there is. Its completely different pattern to all the other hives I have which is why I first had the concern something isnt right with the queen.

On 3 of the frames there are some decent slabs of worker brood but the rest are very bitty

I would be very nervous with any EQC's raised by this colony now with the queen firing on three or even two cylinders, if, as you say there's plenty of bees and a fair bit of brood, I'd get a new queen in there.
As Dani said, plenty of imported frankenstein queens available but home bred ones may not quite be online yet, I know my supplier won't have any for a couple of weeks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And if do decide to requeen, knock down that QC

 

[Morgan968]

I would be very nervous with any EQC's raised by this colony now with the queen firing on three or even two cylinders, if, as you say there's plenty of bees and a fair bit of brood, I'd get a new queen in there.
As Dani said, plenty of imported frankenstein queens available but home bred ones may not quite be online yet, I know my supplier won't have any for a couple of weeks.

I think I will re-queen but regarding the frames now there are lots of drone cells everywhere do I need to replace the frames or will the bees turn them back into worker cells?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think I will re-queen but regarding the frames now there are lots of drone cells everywhere do I need to replace the frames or will the bees turn them back into worker cells?

the bees will sort them out - in the end, most will be drone eggs laid in worker cells anyway.
I actually had a 100% drone layer in a very strong colony this year so I decided to requeen rather than shake out - you can't see the evidence of drone brood now, it's all worker

 

[Morgan968]

the bees will sort them out - in the end, most will be drone eggs laid in worker cells anyway.
I actually had a 100% drone layer in a very strong colony this year so I decided to requeen rather than shake out - you can't see the evidence of drone brood now, it's all worker

That's a sigh of relief, regarding the new queen then what's the best method of release as I've herd mixed reviews about the cages with candy option, and thinking of it if going to order a queen I'll get 3 as I've just carried out splits on 2 others and could introduce a new queen into those instead of waiting for them to raise a queen

 

[Erichalfbee]

Queens into nucs in their transport cages are usually ok. Re queening a big hive I like a push in cage. Old queen out new queen in

 

[Morgan968]

Queens into nucs in their transport cages are usually ok. Re queening a big hive I like a push in cage. Old queen out new queen in

When you say push in cage, do you mean the ones which stab into the frame? My only thought is the queens would come this saturday, meaning if all goes well next weekend they would be laying, could I use a queen cage without the candy and keep her in there for a little longer before releasing, as the queens have been removed already out of 2 of the hives when the splits were taken place

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've always intrtoduced queens in their transport cages - whether nuc or full hive. The most important thing is patience.
First of all don't introduce the old queen to the gatepost until you have the new queen in your hand.
Don't faff about with removing the attendant worker bees.
Cover the candy plug with a piece of strong insulating tape to make sure the bees can't get at it immediately (unless you have one of those introduction cages with a plastic tab already over the candy.
Immediately on removing and killing the old queen put the introduction cage in, between two frames - the flat introduction cages usually have a little loop at one end, put a piece of twig or a cocktail stick through it so the cage is suspended between the top bars.
Close up and sit back for a day or two.
go back in and judge the demeanour of the colony, if they seem happy, have a quick check in case of any QC's, uncover the candy and close up.
Go back in after a few days just to check they have released her (sometimes the candy gets a bit hard so they may need some help) don't inspect, but if all is well, close up and wait a week.
Go back in after a week and just do a very quick check to see if there are any eggs don't go hunting for the queen.
Regardless of whether you find eggs or not, close up, wait another week and check again.

 

[Swarm]

I've always intrtoduced queens in their transport cages - whether nuc or full hive. The most important thing is patience.
First of all don't introduce the old queen to the gatepost until you have the new queen in your hand.
Don't faff about with removing the attendant worker bees.
Cover the candy plug with a piece of strong insulating tape to make sure the bees can't get at it immediately (unless you have one of those introduction cages with a plastic tab already over the candy.
Immediately on removing and killing the old queen put the introduction cage in, between two frames - the flat introduction cages usually have a little loop at one end, put a piece of twig or a cocktail stick through it so the cage is suspended between the top bars.
Close up and sit back for a day or two.
go back in and judge the demeanour of the colony, if they seem happy, have a quick check in case of any QC's, uncover the candy and close up.
Go back in after a few days just to check they have released her (sometimes the candy gets a bit hard so they may need some help) don't inspect, but if all is well, close up and wait a week.
Go back in after a week and just do a very quick check to see if there are any eggs don't go hunting for the queen.
Regardless of whether you find eggs or not, close up, wait another week and check again.

Just to add, if they still appear a bit hostile leave the tab in place for two or three more days. I've had queens in a cage for five days before removing the tab, they will come to no harm.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just to add, if they still appear a bit hostile leave the tab in place for two or three more days. I've had queens in a cage for five days before removing the tab, they will come to no harm.

exactly - people are in some great haste to get the queen released, better to wait a bit longer so the bees get more settled with her

 

[Morgan968]

Just to add, if they still appear a bit hostile leave the tab in place for two or three more days. I've had queens in a cage for five days before removing the tab, they will come to no harm.

exactly - people are in some great haste to get the queen released, better to wait a bit longer so the bees get more settled with her

Thank you both for this, I've ordered the queens which come tomorrow so will go and place her within then.

One of the hives I done splits from I am planning on quickly inspecting and removing all the queen cells before placing the queen in and leaving her in the cage for 4 days, then checking and see what the bee's are doing and I will also do the same for the hive which I need to re-queen.

With the split which I done over a week ago, I thought about removing what will be a sealed queen cup by tomorrow along with a frame maybe 2 of brood, stores etc to make a 3 frame nuc up. Rather than waste a produced queen cell, see if i can make a nuc up to overwinter as they wouldn't be big enough for a full size hive this year. I'll then introduce the new queen into this hive and again leave it 4 days before I check to see how she is getting on before allowing them at the candy, does this sound like itll work?

 

[For want of a better word]

It depends what you want
The usual suppliers will have queens
I’ve had queens from BS Honeybees and they were fine. They gave them in stock

East Devon... would be worth giving Pete at Exmoor Bees a call for home bred Buckfasts of high repute.... rather than something of little provenance imported from Greece?