Double Brood??

[Greatbigchicken]

I've had my bees for a year now, I didn't get any honey this year, but I did increase my one colony to 3. I don't want to make any more increases and assuming they all make it through winter (fingers crossed) would it be best to stick with single, increase to brood and a half or double brood.

Pro's and con's as I see it are

Single national - not much space, increased risk of swarming.
Brood and a half - more space, but two different size frames to deal with.
Double brood - very large brood area, 20 frames to deal with.
Deep Brood - Very heavy frames (I find a full standard frame heavy enough)

At the moment I'm leaning towards double brood, but any advise and recommendations gratefully received as I will be buying any extras I need on the online sales.

 

[Skyhook]

I've mved mine on to 14 x 12, as there seems to be quite a concensus in it's favour. To soon to judge, but it seems to give the right sort of number of cells without faffing with 2 boxes.

 

[drstitson]

how prolific are your bees?

 

[Finman]

.
First you must get good queens if you want brood in two boxes.

Second, you just leave off the excluder, and the brood area will be so big as the queen has capacity.

In later summer you put the the excluder on and put the queen lay into empty combs.

I use 3 brood system and no excluder. That I have done 45 years.

They key is good queens whose capacity to lay is over the average.
If you do not select queens, they will be average like in your neigbourhood.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not quite sure what you mean by 'a year'. Was this a colony late last year or do you mean a full colony or nuc this whole season? Neither do you tell us how you are over-wintering them - if they have each collected a shallow of stores on top of a deep brood, they have done quite well if you did a three way split. That may mean there was a harvest but you declined the offer.

To be honest you should have been able to get some crop if the splits were done after the OSR, if you have had them for 12 months. But never mind.

I run 14 x 12s (extra-deeps or jumbos) and it saves me having to bother with separate supers for over-wintering. I do the same as Finman says, omitting the Q/E early in the season. It needs careful organisation for the OSR crop, but apart from that it works well.

You will need to make increase during the season, if only to avoid losing swarms. You simply unite them later (usually with the young queen?) to maintain your colony number. They may often need to be on two boxes at that stage.

RAB

 

[Finman]

.
Actually question is, how do you use your excluders?

To many it is so holy thing that they keep it over winter.
- some restrict the queen into one box
- some into two box
- some start to use it at the end of July
- some if needed

some lift the brood every week over the excluder and put the queen lay into empty box.=swarm preventing

AND SOME use it even if they do not take honey off.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

3 colonies is a nice number to have as you can get out of trouble with three!

I personally would avoid brood and a half and go to double brood if needed.

What about commercial instead of 14 x 12?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Deep Brood - Very heavy frames (I find a full standard frame heavy enough)

At the moment I'm leaning towards double brood, but any advise and recommendations gratefully received as I will be buying any extras I need on the online sales.

if you find a deep brood frames which i assume you mean an extra deep 14x12 frames heavy then you will soon tire of lifting a full standard brood off a bouble brood set up even more tiring

why not buy or make a cheep 14x12 90mm Eke and add a few 14x12 frames, cheapest option to try first. Maisemore clearance sale HAD the Ekes at £11 ish

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I'd assume any weight issue that the OP has with 14x12 frames will be the same for Commercials.

Agree that double is more sensible than brood and a half, differnet size brood boxes cant be helpful and you can expand to is if/when they need it. Remember though that there will be further weight issues when inspecting - having to manhandle one full brood box off to get at the next.

 

[djg]

I agree with Muswell Metro - 3 of my 5 14 x 12 BBs are T*****s sale Nats plus M*******e ekes bolted tight together with metal triangle fastener on each face.

So far, so good.

 

[enrico]

My only advice would be that if you add another brood box then put it on at right angles to the first one. This stops the top frames pulling out the bottom frames when inspecting and makes the lifting of the top brood box much less stressful for the bees. It doesn't affect their behaviour in any way but it one of the most useful tips!
E

 

[Skyhook]

My only advice would be that if you add another brood box then put it on at right angles to the first one. This stops the top frames pulling out the bottom frames when inspecting and makes the lifting of the top brood box much less stressful for the bees. It doesn't affect their behaviour in any way but it one of the most useful tips!
E

I've been told the same about supering- if you have 2 frames vertically above each other they can think it's one broken one, and 'mend' it. If you put at right angles they dont join them.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Having the correct bee space also makes a huge difference,Langstroth,smith hives ect, would leave some fairly large gaps if cross boxed.

 

[Finman]

My only advice would be that if you add another brood box then put it on at right angles to the first one. This stops the top frames pulling out the bottom frames when inspecting and makes the lifting of the top brood box much less stressful for the bees. It doesn't affect their behaviour in any way but it one of the most useful tips!
E

no value in that advice because you cannot put frames that way. the boxes are what they are.
Bees make burr moe or les. Let it be.

 

[Swarm]

Not all bees seem to realise (or care) about the bee gap and happily brace the frames regardless. I had one colony that was a real pain to open, using hive tool to get the top bars free and back in place while holding up a heavy super, with bees popping out to inspect. Utter nightmare. Cross boxing solved that little issue.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Cross boxing solved that little issue.

Must be a bad design flaw with any hives that are not square then,Nationals, best hives in the world. Athough i have never put box's on cross wise,and never had this problem.

 

[Swarm]

Must be a real bad design flaw with any hives that are not square then,Nationals, best hives in the world.

Now, now HM, no need for sarcasm Did I say that?


Edit: It's poor policy to edit your post. You were being sarcastic but now you've added "Although etc"
You've never had this problem? I'm pleased for you, I had it in one hive and the bee gaps were good. I endured it for quite a while but cross boxed in the end because it was a pain. It worked.

My boxes are square so I had the option, no need to hypothesize about hives that aren't

 

[Hivemaker.]

Now, now HM, no need for sarcasm Did I say that?

What would you of done if it had been a Langstroth,the sensible thing, and changed to national?

 

[Greatbigchicken]

how prolific are your bees?

Not sure as I've got nothing to compare them to, I'd guess average.

Not quite sure what you mean by 'a year'. Was this a colony late last year or do you mean a full colony or nuc this whole season? Neither do you tell us how you are over-wintering them - if they have each collected a shallow of stores on top of a deep brood, they have done quite well if you did a three way split. That may mean there was a harvest but you declined the offer.

By 'a year' I mean roughly 365 days. I bought a hive with a full colony in. I'm overwintering on just the brood box, which is quite stuffed with stores, but I'll keep hefting and add fondant if they get light.

To be honest you should have been able to get some crop if the splits were done after the OSR, if you have had them for 12 months. But never mind.

The splits were done after the OSR and I did manage to get about 5lb off, but this is now totally solid.

RAB

14x12 seems to be most popular, I'll start reading up on how to transfer them.

 

[Bob Bee]

if you find a deep brood frames which i assume you mean an extra deep 14x12 frames heavy then you will soon tire of lifting a full standard brood off a bouble brood set up even more tiring

why not buy or make a cheep 14x12 90mm Eke and add a few 14x12 frames, cheapest option to try first. Maisemore clearance sale HAD the Ekes at £11 ish

I intend to expand into both standard NATS and 14x 12 next year, had considered simply AS into 14x12 using the NAT frames but adding 14x12 frames with foundation. If you've done this, do the bees simply build brace comb below the bottom of the standard NAT frame, those converters look like a proper fiddle. ?