Double brood chambers

[Mike a]

I've been reading about different methods of using 2 or more chambers for the queen to lay in. Recently I've read on this forum of some bee keepers advising add a new chamber above or below and I wanted to learn more. Obviously each of the methods below use different size chambers which may be part of the reason behind why they are managed the way they are.


For example

Rose hive method
Add a new chamber in between the brood nest to encourage them to draw out the frames for the queen to lay in. Once Summer flow starts add all new chambers above brood nest

Warre Method
Keep adding a new chambers below as required and allow the colony to grow downwards

Classic American method
Swap around the chambers in early spring to encourage the colony to work both chambers

I'm sure there are more examples but I'm interested in learning more about double brood chambers and the reasons why bee keepers add boxes above, in between or below to encourage the queen to build up a large brood nest and thus colony and any pro or cons as well.

 

[iball]

I'm putting one of my colonies onto double brood in the spring and will be putting the new brood box underneath.

Why? Well it seems more natural to work downwards.

 

[RoofTops]

When I shook swarmed a colony into a double brood chamber of Dadant shallow frames they almost completely filled up the top box before moving down to the lower one. This make sense as they had a choice of boxes but if they are on one box already and you want to add another I've always put it on top, exactly as you would a super, and they seemed to take to it fine. I suspect it is one of these things where you can think of reasons to do it one way or the other but the bees aren't really fussed - like the perennial cold/warm way argument.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am sure from my experience that queens are far keener to go up than down.

If I am going for doubles (which I do) then I put the 2nd one on top. I also swap them around to maximise the brood area.

Can I just point out that Rose and Warre are based on the originators theories which are not truly main stream. What happens in the States is a far far cry from what we can do here, why? Weather mates.... weather.

Bees are very different in a warm climate. I just wish we could get some of it ourselves.

PH

 

[Skyhook]

Glad you asked that. I am looking to get mine onto double brood prior to splitting. I've seen conflicting advice, both sets heat related- put the new chamber on top, as bees don't like drawing cold foundation, and put the new chamber underneath, as putting it on top cools the brood. Would the answer be in the time of year?

 

[iball]

Right, I've decided what I'm going to do.

I'm going to run a brood and 2 halves, with half on the bottom, then a full brood, then the last half and these shall be cold, warm, cold. That should cover all eventualities!!

No matter how I skin this damned cat, I always find a better way once I pick the knife up.

Sorry to have hijacked your thread Mike.

Ian

 

[Black Comb]

In my whole 3 years (yes 3) years of beekeeping I've not heard of that way.
Inspect 33 frames instead of 22.

 

[Finman]

It depends what time of year you enlarge the hive.
When it is shilly spring, you may disturb badly the spring build up.

In summer bees tolerate better careless handling.


Methods is too much said about how you put your boxes.


That "encourage" word I do not understand. Bee nurse brood without encouragement.

1) Keep adding a new chambers below as required and allow the colony to grow downwards = the brood area stays warm in enlarmenent. Bees take the champer into use when they need it.



Classic American method
Swap around the chambers in early spring to encourage the colony to work both chambers

Where in America? In Alaska or in California?

The main idea is prevent swarming and that is not early spring.
Another thing is turn boxes that frames are brooded evenly.

*****

Important is to learn to see, when the colony needs more room.

When new bees emerge at same time wintered bees die all. Then becomes moment when new bees emerge more than other bees die. Enlargement is often rapid. If a beekeeper is not ready, swarming fewer arises.

In two brood system there is nothing odd. You just keep off the excluder and let the bees enlarge the brood area.
ied with one box.
But plenty of queens are not able to layin in two champers. Don't surprise if bees are satisfied with one box.

 

[Onge]

In my whole 3 years (yes 3) years of beekeeping I've not heard of that way.
Inspect 33 frames instead of 22.

Why do you have to go through every single frame ?

Just split the box look at the bottom for cells then maybe take out 2 or 3 frames.

Easy.

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

double brood

Last year was my first year so this is my first winter for keeping bees. I found that as two colonies are carnolians they needed more room. My first thoughts were 14x12,s so I started with those but even then there didnt seem to be enough room so I added a super in efect to make them into a double brood I know this is going to be frowned upon but, when they were in only the 14x12 they swarmed out after only approx 8 weeks ! and that was with a new young queen. So now im in a muddle as two are in 14x 12s with a super on top and one is in a double brood, and theyve been like that since last September. So now im wondering what the heck to do.

regards
Dave W

 

[Busy Bee]

Last year was my first year so this is my first winter for keeping bees. I found that as two colonies are carnolians they needed more room. My first thoughts were 14x12,s so I started with those but even then there didnt seem to be enough room so I added a super in efect to make them into a double brood I know this is going to be frowned upon but, when they were in only the 14x12 they swarmed out after only approx 8 weeks ! and that was with a new young queen. So now im in a muddle as two are in 14x 12s with a super on top and one is in a double brood, and theyve been like that since last September. So now im wondering what the heck to do.

regards
Dave W

If you want to cut down on swarming 1st thing is change to another pedigree of bee as carni's tend to be swarmy and prolific.

I had a carni queen last year and took 5 nuc's from her i still have her and i will do the same with her again, some bee keepers only keep carni's for increase because they produce alot of bees.

Busy Bee

 

[Poly Hive]

They swarmed and the hive is to blame? LOL

You could have a hive the size of an elephant and IF THEY AIN'T ENOUGH ROOM

they swarm. Simple.

What I mean is is there enough room in the combs for them to lay up or are they honey bound?

I keep reading that newbies have swarm issues when the bees they say have a massive hive and blah blah.. they swarm... it's all about room to lay.

PH

 

[bushman1872]

I would have though that the less frames you had to check each visit the better. Last year I found drawn out queen cells, lots of them, I dutifully followed the book and AS them. The only thing that happened was that I then had 2 colonies making queen cells I literally had to go up every week and destroy every single queen cell I could find. This was the only way I could stop them b******g off. I look forward to this year! On the plus side lots of bees meant that even after loosing pretty much the entire honey gathering period the girls were still abundant enough to go and bring in a nice yeild of ivy honey.

 

[Finman]

I would have though that the less frames you had to check each visit the better..

One hive and too much frames .... hmmmm

 

[tonybloke]

One hive and too much frames .... hmmmm

not one hive, double brood is the topic!

 

[onriver]

the rose hive method and I suppose the Warre (though I've no experience of this) would not see this as a problem - no excluder means that the queen expands the brood nest freely and without the restrictions that might cause problems.

 

[Scutellator]

I've been reading about different methods of using 2 or more chambers for the queen to lay in. Recently I've read on this forum of some bee keepers advising add a new chamber above or below and I wanted to learn more. Obviously each of the methods below use different size chambers which may be part of the reason behind why they are managed the way they are.


For example

Rose hive method
Add a new chamber in between the brood nest to encourage them to draw out the frames for the queen to lay in. Once Summer flow starts add all new chambers above brood nest

Warre Method
Keep adding a new chambers below as required and allow the colony to grow downwards

Classic American method
Swap around the chambers in early spring to encourage the colony to work both chambers

I'm sure there are more examples but I'm interested in learning more about double brood chambers and the reasons why bee keepers add boxes above, in between or below to encourage the queen to build up a large brood nest and thus colony and any pro or cons as well.

Different bees - different habbits.
It could not be described in one sentence what you should do and advocating one method and rejecting the rest.
The different bees react differently to the method applyed and the results can range from success to complete failure.
To know your bees is important.

 

[Mike a]

Different bees - different habbits.

To know your bees is important.

I was intrigued as to why some bee keepers favour putting a second brood chamber either above or below the existing chamber. Seems its down to personal choice depending style or method of bee keeping and of course if the queen is prolific enough to use more than a single chamber.

Thank you all for your replies.

 

[Haughton Honey]

I was intrigued as to why some bee keepers favour putting a second brood chamber either above or below the existing chamber. Seems its down to personal choice depending style or method of bee keeping and of course if the queen is prolific enough to use more than a single chamber.

Thank you all for your replies.

<------------------ *cough*

 

[Poly Hive]

I have never even heard of putting the 2nd brood box under the existing colony until last year on here. I hardly consider it the common or right way to go.

As I said and say again queens want to go up.

Try putting a box of drawn combs over a strong brood nest, and one under, and see where you find the queen in three or five days time. I know where my money is.

Psst... heat rises.... hint.

PH