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666bees 

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Should there be a small space on the bottom of both the brood and supper boxes.To clarify I mean the side on which the frames hang. Just in the middle of building a hive.
 

Flatters 

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Hi 666Bees
I am relatively new to beekeeping, however I will try and answer your question as I interpret it;

There needs to be bee space all around the frames. The supers and BB will have either top space or bottom space depending on the design you follow (and there are probably forum threads on what people think is best so you could look there and make a decision, although personally I followed the hive instructions and went with bottom space). This space is around 6.5-9mm and you will see it repeated all around the hive (between the frames and the sides, between frames and frames). If the space gets too big then the bees will make brace comb, which is a nuisance. Too small a space then all the bees cannot move around. The top/bottom bee space means you don't squash bees when you put the hive back together. You don't mis top and bottom spec components as you will end up with no space or double space.

If however you mean that the edges of the super and BB, then these should be true. If the wood is not straight and it produces gaps then that will create drafts which the bees do not like and the will propolise the gap, sticking it closed. They will do that everytime you reconstruct the hive after inspection which takes them away from what you want them to do; make honey.
 

Dishmop 

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If you get it a bit wrong they will either fill up the gap if it is too big or chew their way thro the edge of the foundation it it is too small....
I have witnessed the latter in my observation hive......Bad measuring on my part...:ack2:
 

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National hives are bottom beespace so there will be an 8mm rebate in the front and back edges.

see this pic from the cushman site:
 

666bees 

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So are we saying there should be an 8mm gap below the yellow part on the diagram? And will it make much of a differnce if it is not put in.
 

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Yes you must have the gap.

Thats the space for the bees to move around the frames.

The top space is for the frame to sit flush in the box,the bottom for the bees.

Have a look at the two short sides in this picture to get the idea.
 

666bees 

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Thanks, I think i just cut my top rebates abit deep, so will still lift the side pieces up to give the bottom gap.
 

oliver90owner 

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A tip.

If you cut the top rebates too deep, fill them in - or the bees will.

Bees are very finnicky as to gaps in their homes. They either fill them with brace comb, if too wide; or fill with propolis, if too small. Getting them right in the first place is much simpler than trying to make fixes later.

Regards, RAB
 

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Shuoldn't the bottom gap be beespace, i.e. less than 8mm???
 

drstitson 

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666bees

sorry - can't make out what those plans result in BUT if it is 4mm what is crucial is the depth of the rebate at the top - just deep enough for the lugs of a frame OR is there 4mm spare above the lugs? that design might be a national/rational hybrid!!!!
 

Flatters 

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From what I can make out the frames sit on a piece of wood with a 17mm rebate. Frames are 9mm thick so you would end up with a top bee space of 8mm. So the plans suggest to me that they have a top bee space.

I may be interpreting them incorrctly though.
 

Hombre 

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Nominally the bottom bar should have a rebate depth of 8mm (beespace).
The top bar should have a rebate depth of 17mm. This is comprised of 6mm, the height of a standard metal or plastic runner, and 9mm which is the height of a standard top bar. All being well, the top bar will sit on the runner and be flush with the top of the box.

When inserted, the bottom of frames will be level with the top of the bottom bar rebate, which is of course 8mm from the bottom of the box. Most definitely a bottom bee space box.

Without the 6mm runner, the box would of course exhibit 6mm of top space, but that wouldn't make it a top space box.

I hope this helps to clear up any doubt in your mind.

I do realise that my arithmetic is 2mm out - sorry, call it working tolerance, as the runner probably sits slightly high.
 
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666bees 

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Thats great,its the first box (of many,hopefully) that I am making and was concerned whether it was right.

Thanks for all your help.

Chris
 

drex 

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Hi 666,

Well personally I was a bit confused by some of those replies, but then I am a bit thick.

In post number 7 you say:

"Thanks, I think i just cut my top rebates a bit deep, so will still lift the side pieces up to give the bottom gap."

However you are meant to have a frame runner on the top of the top bar, which lifts the frames up a bit.

Have a look at Scottish Beekeepers website they have good instructions and plans:-

http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/learning/documents/number 4 national hive.pdf
 

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