Dealing with aggressive colony

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But the question was can you move the nasty hive and put a queenright hive (a nuc promoted into a full hive) in its place. The queenright colony gets all the nasty fliers. Will there be a problem with them coming home to find a different queen. Will they kill her? We are all agreed on how to deal with the nasty queen box as it is now depleted of flying nasty bees.

No, the question was more than that - I gave a better alternative.

If the colony is strong then the nuc is going to be mobbed by strange bees unless that too is pretty strong with good guard bees - you're also looking at fitting a colony sized population into a nuc. I wouldn't.

 

[beeno]

I have a similar situation but have a nuc with a new queen raised from a nice colony.
My thoughts were remove the aggressive hive to a new position, put the nuc in its place (in a hive) and the the flying bees will join it. Hopefully I can find and kill nasty superceedure queen and re-unite.
Will the fliers be accepted in the nuc colony? Don't want to lose that queen!

Or would it be better just to try to introduce her when they arequeenless?

Hi lilybetbee,
Don't do it that way, because the flying bees are the aggressors. Make the parent colony hopelessly queenless (no eggs or larvae young enough to make a queen from) and unite the nuc with them using the newspaper method and rearrange the frames keeping the frame with the queen on at the back of the hive.
Make sure the flyers are hopelessly queenless i.e. no emergency cells. Then late afternoon place the parent hive on the site of the flyers and remove the flyers brood box 5 meters away.
The theory is that the flyers return from foraging singly laden with nectar or honey and will gently settle back into Q+ colony full of queen substance and open brood pheromones.
Good luck.

 

[Motobiman]

Hi lilybetbee,
Don't do it that way, because the flying bees are the aggressors. Make the parent colony hopelessly queenless (no eggs or larvae young enough to make a queen from) and unite the nuc with them using the newspaper method and rearrange the frames keeping the frame with the queen on at the back of the hive.
Make sure the flyers are hopelessly queenless i.e. no emergency cells. Then late afternoon place the parent hive on the site of the flyers and remove the flyers brood box 5 meters away.
The theory is that the flyers return from foraging singly laden with nectar or honey and will gently settle back into Q+ colony full of queen substance and open brood pheromones.
Good luck.

That's interesting.

So makes sense it's the older flying bees that are the aggressors, but you say they will lose that aggression given the manipulation you suggest.

So what happens to flying bees if a hive is just moved away more than three miles and fed and nothing is left in its place?

Do the flying bees (the aggressors) all die overnight or over a few days apart from some that are taken in by adjacent hives and lose their aggression?

 

[polomadh]

Can I add my voice to the "just requeen them", as it isn't always the answer.

A couple of years ago I took a really nasty hive from a fellow beekeeper off this forum, as he was about to distroy them. He had to get rid as they were attacking members of the public on a right of way close, but not near to the hive. I took it to an apiary of mine that is well away from anyone. I requeened that hive 3 times, multiple stings were part of inspection, and bees bouncing off the veil trying to get to me were also interesting.

I didn't shed a tear when this hive did not survive through last winter

My point is that re queening just did not work for me, despite what the textbook says, and making sure that none of the genes get into your stock is a challenge. Sorry I can't offer any helpful advice other than get some gauntlets!

 

[B+.]

Oh for Pete's sake. Just requeen them and be done with it.

but this is a longer term solution.
I think the problem for this year will be the persistent attacks from the daughters of the old queen. The answer to this is to seal the colony up one evening and take it to an out apiary. Then, he wont be bothered by the aggressive workers while inspecting his other bees.

 

[kevrhcfag]

Having made a split/AS from a very aggressive but prolific colony earlier this year I ended up with two aggressive colonies! No surprises there really, this weekend I've requeening the split with last years angry queen and will wait to see what the offspring of her daughter turns out like before deciding her fate, I have had enough of getting stung every week, and it always being the same hives, currently sat here with a swollen left arm and hand!

As has been said, requeen them, it's not instant and may take a couple of months to remedy properly but with others I've done in the past I have noticed an improvement in temper almost immediately?

Thats a fair wait to find out you have another angry hive, fair play to you.

 

[Anduril]

Can I add my voice to the "just requeen them", as it isn't always the answer.

A couple of years ago I took a really nasty hive from a fellow beekeeper off this forum, as he was about to distroy them. He had to get rid as they were attacking members of the public on a right of way close, but not near to the hive. I took it to an apiary of mine that is well away from anyone. I requeened that hive 3 times, multiple stings were part of inspection, and bees bouncing off the veil trying to get to me were also interesting.

I didn't shed a tear when this hive did not survive through last winter

My point is that re queening just did not work for me, despite what the textbook says, and making sure that none of the genes get into your stock is a challenge. Sorry I can't offer any helpful advice other than get some gauntlets!

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30503
At least you tried.

 

[Eyeman]

I requeened that hive 3 times, multiple stings were part of inspection, and bees bouncing off the veil trying to get to me were also interesting.

There are various methods of re-queening- which one(s) did you use?
I've united an aggressive and now hopelessly queenless hive with a queen right nuc using newspaper.
One week later the newspaper was shredded but both colonies looked like they preferred to remain separate- queen excluder separating both and bottom aggressive colony still aggressive. After popping the Q in a cage and rearranging the combs and bringing the bees together there was an almost instant calmness that came over the now combined colony. Release Q and all was well.

 

[thenovice]

but this is a longer term solution.
I think the problem for this year will be the persistent attacks from the daughters of the old queen. The answer to this is to seal the colony up one evening and take it to an out apiary. Then, he wont be bothered by the aggressive workers while inspecting his other bees.

that is not my experience. when I requeened a hopelessly aggressive hive, almost immediately the temper of the hive calmed down a notch or two. Some of it must be a pheromone thing as well.

 

[B+.]

Some of it must be a pheromone thing as well.

You may well be right. Pheremones almost certainly play a part. However, in some cases the colony remains aggressive despite the introduction of a queen from a proven docile line. In this case, I would suggest the best solution is to remove the colony to a distant out apiary until those workers have lived out their life and been replaced by the daughters of the new queen. At which point, the colony can be safely returned to the home apiary.

 

[Finman]

that is not my experience. when I requeened a hopelessly aggressive hive, almost immediately the temper of the hive calmed down a notch or two. Some of it must be a pheromone thing as well.

I have not seen such miracles. Never. I have had hundreds of aggressive beehives. I change queens every year, and I really do not have met such miracles. And immedeately..... No no and no.

When we study, why bee is aggressive, it protects its colony, nest, stores and its future in open nature. In nature the behaviour is necessary. A human has made it lazy by selection when he has domesticated the bee. One of the biggest enemies is the next door neighbour, another beehive.

Why in heck the colony would put its armours down when all the time other animals try to eate its larvae and honey stores.

 

[lilybetbee]

But the question was can you move the nasty hive and put a queenright hive (a nuc promoted into a full hive) in its place. The queenright colony gets all the nasty fliers. Will there be a problem with them coming home to find a different queen. Will they kill her? We are all agreed on how to deal with the nasty queen box as it is now depleted of flying nasty bees.

Thanks Obee1 that's exactly what I meant. I thought that the aggression was due to the queen's pheromone, not a part of individual bees.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Has the colony always been nasty ?

Does the colony have much honey or has it made much honey compared to the others ?

Is it at one end of the apiary ?

 

[Anduril]

Thanks Obee1 that's exactly what I meant. I thought that the aggression was due to the queen's pheromone, not a part of individual bees.

You have 5 hives, use a strong queen right hive not a nuc. The last thing you want is a lot of fighting. They have to beg their way in to a strong hive, they will show signs of submission.

 

[beeno]

But the question was can you move the nasty hive and put a queenright hive (a nuc promoted into a full hive) in its place. The queenright colony gets all the nasty fliers. Will there be a problem with them coming home to find a different queen. Will they kill her? We are all agreed on how to deal with the nasty queen box as it is now depleted of flying nasty bees.

The answers:
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. The nasty queen box will not be nasty in the short term as it is full of nurse bees.

 

[beeno]

There are various methods of re-queening- which one(s) did you use?
I've united an aggressive and now hopelessly queenless hive with a queen right nuc using newspaper.
One week later the newspaper was shredded but both colonies looked like they preferred to remain separate- queen excluder separating both and bottom aggressive colony still aggressive. After popping the Q in a cage and rearranging the combs and bringing the bees together there was an almost instant calmness that came over the now combined colony. Release Q and all was well.

I have had that situation with non-aggressive colonies. In one instance there were a few bees left on the frames about 200 after a week and when I rearranged the frames these bees were duly chased out of the hive. There was a lot of fighting in my little yew tree.

 

[lilybetbee]

Has the colony always been nasty ?

Does the colony have much honey or has it made much honey compared to the others ?

Is it at one end of the apiary ?

Never been very friendly but superseded and been worse since.

Stores fine and making at a similar rate to others.

Hive only one at that side of the shed, others all in a line on the other side - why?

 

[Nige.Coll]

Never been very friendly but superseded and been worse since.

Stores fine and making at a similar rate to others.

Hive only one at that side of the shed, others all in a line on the other side - why?

Ruling out changes in the hive and robbing.
RE queen them

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

 

[Anduril]

Never been very friendly but superseded and been worse since.

Stores fine and making at a similar rate to others.

Hive only one at that side of the shed, others all in a line on the other side - why?

Easier to move that hive to the other side of the shed and swap it with the furthest one, for requeening.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought that the aggression was due to the queen's pheromone, not a part of individual bees.

No, it's either due to temporary outside influences (loads of stores to guard, weather etc) or genetics - the mother and father's genes.

Never been very friendly but superseded and been worse since.

Only way to change them is to change the genetic makeup and wait for the aggressive ones to die. Queen change