Confused by an extra queen

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Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
682
Reaction score
686
Location
Nr Maidstone, Kent, UK
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
4
Yesterday, whilst I was working, my neighbours saw a lot of activity around my 'B' hive. I put it down to orientation flights, expecting that what they thought was a 'lot' of bees, wasn't that many in reality. However, when I went to check them this morning, there was a small cluster of approx. 70 bees on the side of hive B. They were gathered where there's a slight gap between the QE and the super above it so I thought perhaps they just hadn't found the hive entrance in all of the wind we've had here and clustered where they might be able to smell 'home' through the gap. I started brushing them off onto a board to put them near the entrance when I noticed an unmarked queen amongst them. When I held them near the entrance to hive B a few bees came out and attacked a couple of the cluster bees so not knowing what else to do I put the tiny cluster with their queen in a nuc box and decided I'd better inspect both hives to see what was going on.

Hive B has a marked 2020 queen (the result of an AS at the beginning of May). Since May they've only produced empty play cups, not even an egg in them, and I inspect them regularly, so I really don't think the queen has come from this hive. I didn't see Buttercup, the hive B queen, today, but she's often shy so that's not unusual, and I did see plenty of eggs and no signs of any queen cells, new or old.

Hive A has a marked 2018 queen (the Q+ half of the May AS). This hive did produce queen cells after the AS, so on 27th July I put Anthea, the queen, in a nuc, leaving hive A with one queen cell. About 10 days later the nuc started to get robbed. Not wanting to risk my backup queen, and not having anywhere else to move the nuc, I made sure hive A had all queen cells removed, and united the nuc (plus Anthea) back with hive A. Last friday (10 days after the unite) I found one sealed queen cell hanging in the middle of a frame. There weren't any other QCs and since this was in a typical 'supersedure' position I left it thinking that hive A wanted to supersede Anthea. Inspecting hive A today I saw Anthea, and plenty of eggs, and absolutely no sign of the QC from last week (I'd marked the frame) and no other QCs.

So, I'm assuming the extra queen came from hive A? What should I do with her now? She's currently in a nuc with the 60 or 70 bees she was clustered with. I've added a couple of old brood frames with pollen and a tiny bit of honey stores. It's such a pitiful handful of bees that I presume they have no chance of surviving on their own. I have two other big colonies, but is it worth putting a frame of capped brood in with them? Would a mixture of bees shaken in from both other colonies bolster numbers, or would they just fight?

Utterly confused, and hoping for some advice!
 

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Yesterday, whilst I was working, my neighbours saw a lot of activity around my 'B' hive. I put it down to orientation flights, expecting that what they thought was a 'lot' of bees, wasn't that many in reality. However, when I went to check them this morning, there was a small cluster of approx. 70 bees on the side of hive B. They were gathered where there's a slight gap between the QE and the super above it so I thought perhaps they just hadn't found the hive entrance in all of the wind we've had here and clustered where they might be able to smell 'home' through the gap. I started brushing them off onto a board to put them near the entrance when I noticed an unmarked queen amongst them. When I held them near the entrance to hive B a few bees came out and attacked a couple of the cluster bees so not knowing what else to do I put the tiny cluster with their queen in a nuc box and decided I'd better inspect both hives to see what was going on.

Hive B has a marked 2020 queen (the result of an AS at the beginning of May). Since May they've only produced empty play cups, not even an egg in them, and I inspect them regularly, so I really don't think the queen has come from this hive. I didn't see Buttercup, the hive B queen, today, but she's often shy so that's not unusual, and I did see plenty of eggs and no signs of any queen cells, new or old.

Hive A has a marked 2018 queen (the Q+ half of the May AS). This hive did produce queen cells after the AS, so on 27th July I put Anthea, the queen, in a nuc, leaving hive A with one queen cell. About 10 days later the nuc started to get robbed. Not wanting to risk my backup queen, and not having anywhere else to move the nuc, I made sure hive A had all queen cells removed, and united the nuc (plus Anthea) back with hive A. Last friday (10 days after the unite) I found one sealed queen cell hanging in the middle of a frame. There weren't any other QCs and since this was in a typical 'supersedure' position I left it thinking that hive A wanted to supersede Anthea. Inspecting hive A today I saw Anthea, and plenty of eggs, and absolutely no sign of the QC from last week (I'd marked the frame) and no other QCs.

So, I'm assuming the extra queen came from hive A? What should I do with her now? She's currently in a nuc with the 60 or 70 bees she was clustered with. I've added a couple of old brood frames with pollen and a tiny bit of honey stores. It's such a pitiful handful of bees that I presume they have no chance of surviving on their own. I have two other big colonies, but is it worth putting a frame of capped brood in with them? Would a mixture of bees shaken in from both other colonies bolster numbers, or would they just fight?

Utterly confused, and hoping for some advice!
I would guess she is the supercedure queen that got lost after a making flight. I would add a frame of brood and a frame of food to the nuc. If you want you can shake off the flyers leaving the nurse bees clinging to the frame of brood and then a quick squirt of air freshener I to the nuc before adding the frame.
Just bolster them up a bit as she may now be a mated queen and she may survive the winter.
E
 
I would guess she is the supercedure queen that got lost after a making flight. I would add a frame of brood and a frame of food to the nuc. If you want you can shake off the flyers leaving the nurse bees clinging to the frame of brood and then a quick squirt of air freshener I to the nuc before adding the frame.
Just bolster them up a bit as she may now be a mated queen and she may survive the winter.
E
Thanks Eric, that's what I was thinking, but just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed anything obvious before I started mucking around with them. I'll give them a frame of brood and see what happens.
 
Queen is now in the nuc with a frame of capped brood plus nurse bees, a frame of stores and two old frames with pollen. All given a squirt of air freshener.
Fingers crossed now 🤞
 
Queen is now in the nuc with a frame of capped brood plus nurse bees, a frame of stores and two old frames with pollen. All given a squirt of air freshener.
Fingers crossed now 🤞
Don't forget to give us an update in a few weeks!
 
Not worth weakening your other colonies for, give her to someone who is desperate for a queen.
When I say strong, both colonies are on double brood, so I don't think they'll miss one frame of brood. I don't know of anyone that needs a queen, and I'm happy to give it a go so we'll just have to see if they make it.
 
Looking at the posts above I see a few member's use air freshener to hide the smell of the new queen.
can I ask which air freshener you use?
Don't know about anyone else but I just used some glade. I keep it in my bee trug because I figure it would also be handy sprayed on a sting as well if my smoker has gone out. To cover the pheromones of course and prevent further attacks 😊 - not to help my sting!
 
Quick update: Queen (now named Crocus 😊), is laying well. Good laying pattern and capped worker brood so she definitely successfully mated. The little colony is now busy filling some old comb I had with stores and should be in a good place ready for winter over the next few weeks.
 
Well done and good luck through winter.. you may find she will do well in a poly nuc for winter. (If dhes not in one now)
 
Well done and good luck through winter.. you may find she will do well in a poly nuc for winter. (If dhes not in one now)
They're in a 6 frame poly and currently being fed to help them draw the last frame. They've got 2 frames brood and the rest are filling up well with stores. It's amazing how much heat they're generating in there, so at the moment I'm feeling pretty confident they'll make it.
A nice bonus for the end of the season 😁
 
They're in a 6 frame poly and currently being fed to help them draw the last frame. They've got 2 frames brood and the rest are filling up well with stores. It's amazing how much heat they're generating in there, so at the moment I'm feeling pretty confident they'll make it.
A nice bonus for the end of the season 😁
Nice one👍
 
Quick update: Queen (now named Crocus 😊), is laying well. Good laying pattern and capped worker brood so she definitely successfully mated. The little colony is now busy filling some old comb I had with stores and should be in a good place ready for winter over the next few weeks.
I love that you name your queens. I thought I was the only one that did that! Good luck with Crocus.
 
I love that you name your queens. I thought I was the only one that did that!
Don't we all?I have number 1, 2, 3, 4, the wonderful 5 and let's not forget queen 8! and as for all the others........................................ it's sometimes easy to forget their names.
 

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