Combine?

[OursonAnglaise]

At the end of this year I have 2 hives going into winter. 1 is strong the other is weak. I am thinking about combining the two hives if I can find the queen in the weaker colony. Please bear in mind that although it is Autumn it is still warm in my part of the world so I don't think it's too late to be doing these manipulations.

My questions are:

1. Should I combine now or on the Spring?
2. If now, should I place the weaker colony onto the stronger one or vice versa or doesn't it matter? At the moment the weaker colony is in the place I would like to maintain the combined colony going forward, so I woul be placing the stronger colony on top of the weaker one if this will work.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[Erichalfbee]

At the end of this year I have 2 hives going into winter. 1 is strong the other is weak. I am thinking about combining the two hives if I can find the queen in the weaker colony. Please bear in mind that although it is Autumn it is still warm in my part of the world so I don't think it's too late to be doing these manipulations.

My questions are:

1. Should I combine now or on the Spring?
2. If now, should I place the weaker colony onto the stronger one or vice versa or doesn't it matter? At the moment the weaker colony is in the place I would like to maintain the combined colony going forward, so I woul be placing the stronger colony on top of the weaker one if this will work.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Combine now and it doesn't matter which colony goes where. The only time I would introduce a caveat is where the queen you are keeping is in the smaller colony. In those cases I think she is safer on the top.

 

[enrico]

I would not combine. It won't make the strong hive any stronger, I would see if the weak hive gets through the winter ( in a poly nuc if necessary) and let them build up on their own in the spring if they do get through the winter. That way you have a spare queen should you need one, they may surprise you and become a good hive next year, you gain nothing by combining other than turning two hives into one.
E

 

[Binge]

If the one is strong, what would be your reason for combining?
I'm not sure there'd be any mileage in adding more bees now.
Also, why is the colony weak?
If there's something up, you don't want to be adding that to your strong hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One colony looks well set up to go through winter, would uniting with another 'weak' colony benefit it much? the other may well do the same, who knows sometimes smaller colonies fare better than large ones.
I usually give them every help I can and, if they go through until the spring, decide then what to do.
If you unite now, what would be the best outcome in the spring? - one good hive to prepare for summer.
If you don't unite you could end up with two colonies in spring to do what you will with.

 

[Millet]

One colony looks well set up to go through winter, would uniting with another 'weak' colony benefit it much? the other may well do the same, who knows sometimes smaller colonies fare better than large ones.
I usually give them every help I can and, if they go through until the spring, decide then what to do.
If you unite now, what would be the best outcome in the spring? - one good hive to prepare for summer.
If you don't unite you could end up with two colonies in spring to do what you will with.

This clueless little soldier would keep the strong colony as it is, what is the point in upsetting the apple cart now, however this little messenger would insulate both and feed both colonies and hope the weak done good in the spring, if the weaker hive dies you will be in the same spot as the unite but with one strong hive still, if the weak hive survives you have two. Take a gamble.

 

[beeno]

OP. Most beekeeping books state to 'take your winter losses in the autumn'. If the colony does not show any signs of disease I would unite the weaker one (less Q as you say) with the strong colony ASAP. The one you are moving going on top. A small colony will have increased stress put upon it by trying to maintaining cluster temperature therefore have increased risk of isolation starvation as well as succumbing to disease from breeding poor quality bees. Chances are it will be weaker in the spring or a dead out. You are absolutely correct in trying to maintain strong colonies which overwinter well. Good luck.

 

[birdsandbees]

each to their own I guess, I'd probably go down the route of move the smaller colony into a Poly Nuc and feed if required, especially as we come into spring as they may have used up their reserves.
through various reasons I ended up taking a very small colony through last winter mainly because I'd introduced a good queen after they went Queenless, they went on to be a good productive colony this year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've taken countless small colonies successfully through the winter and they've built up from the spring to end up as high yielding colonies.
Choice is yours - remember some books say that hives should have gaping holes in crownboards propped up with matchsticks.
I prefer to work from my own and other people's experience rather than quote random pages from some obscure tome.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes if you're not combining put them in a poly nuc

 

[user 6228]

some bits of Haute Garrone get quite cold in winter. PolyNuc with Recticel cosy (30mm)

 

[Ely]

Is it really a weak colony? Or is it it just a small colony? Small colonies are fine to be over wintered in a polynuc.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Small colonies are fine to be over wintered in a polynuc.

Or even a mini nuc.

 

[beeno]

I've taken countless small colonies successfully through the winter and they've built up from the spring to end up as high yielding colonies.
Choice is yours - remember some books say that hives should have gaping holes in crownboards propped up with matchsticks.
I prefer to work from my own and other people's experience rather than quote random pages from some obscure tome.

Ted Hooper Bees & Honey actually. They say there is a book in everyone you better get on with it! I know you prefer to work from your own experience, but this is a forum and both sides should be expressed to get some balance. Small colonies going into winter is not something to promote IMHO.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Small colonies going into winter is not something to promote IMHO.

And done the right way it is something to promote IMHO.

 

[Millet]

And done the right way it is something to promote IMHO.

I hazard a guess you are 100% correct, that may be why ignore many comments elsewhere.

 

[OursonAnglaise]

OK, so I think I'm going to try to over-winter my 'smaller' colony. Getting a poly hive may be tricky as I have a UK langstroth in France and they don't realy 'do' Langstroth here and the one they do is a slightly different size.

But I can insulate and keep them fed. Will see what the status is come the spring.


Will need to get yet another brood box or 2 for the spring...I don't want to be in the situation I was this spring where the population explosion led to swarming

 

[Ely]

Small colonies going into winter is not something to promote IMHO.

An over wintered nuc is precisely that and is nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Ely]

OK, so I think I'm going to try to over-winter my 'smaller' colony. Getting a poly hive may be tricky as I have a UK langstroth in France and they don't realy 'do' Langstroth here and the one they do is a slightly different size.

But I can insulate and keep them fed. Will see what the status is come the spring.


Will need to get yet another brood box or 2 for the spring...I don't want to be in the situation I was this spring where the population explosion led to swarming

If you can't find a poly nuc you can use insulation board cut to a tight fit to dummy down inside the hive on each side of the brood area after removing excess unused frames. Put a slab above the crown board too if you don't have it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ted Hooper Bees & Honey actually. They say there is a book in everyone you better get on with it!

I may take you up on that.

Alluding to books you have looked at (Hooper or no) is not helping the OP in the slightest, what are your observations/experiences of overwintering small colonies and nucs?

But I can insulate and keep them fed. Will see what the status is come the spring.

Insulation doesn't have to look fantastic, I've happily taken small colonies in wooden hives and plywood nucs through winter with just a sheet of 50mm celotex above the crownboard, no problems