Colonies United Queen Stopped Laying

[bobbybee]

Hi,
I have united a colony that was Queenless . I had introduced 3 Sealed Queen cells over a period of weeks which hatched but no Queen was seen or eggs laid. I decided to unite this colony with a Swarm I acquired which was going well with a laying Queen. I used the newspaper method and after a week I checked today. There are no eggs but some sealed brood in the bottom box ( which was the Q+ one.) I have not seen the Queen today. I don't know what has happened here. Bees are calm. Do I wait another week to see if eggs are laid. Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[bizzybee]

Hi,
I have united a colony that was Queenless . I had introduced 3 Sealed Queen cells over a period of weeks which hatched but no Queen was seen or eggs laid. I decided to unite this colony with a Swarm I acquired which was going well with a laying Queen. I used the newspaper method and after a week I checked today. There are no eggs but some sealed brood in the bottom box ( which was the Q+ one.) I have not seen the Queen today. I don't know what has happened here. Bees are calm. Do I wait another week to see if eggs are laid. Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

Hi Babbybee, i had a similar problem with putting queen cells into a known queenless colony and not being able to see the new queen / no eggs. I had to wait and wait and eventually took advice from more experienced beekeeper who told me a sure fire way to know if there is a queen is to put a frame of eggs in and see if the bees draw down anymore queen cells. if not there is a queen and she just needs to be given more time to mate. this colony took 6 weeks from when i put the queen cells in til i had eggs. but ok now. if there is no queen they will draw down a queen cell and you know either way.
hope this helps.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thoughts would be appreciated.

Virgin queen has killed the mated queen.

 

[Swarm]

Virgin queen has killed the mated queen.

Sounds like.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll third that!

 

[bobbybee]

Hi,
Virgin Queen killed Laying Queen.

I never saw two Queens in the Q+ box but I know that this does not mean that there wasn't two. I think I will wait another week and check again. In the meantime I am clearing the top box. Now there is a lot of bees, no eggs , some sealed brood, no larva,
and maybe a Virgin Queen. Thanks for your thoughts

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi,
I had introduced 3 Sealed Queen cells over a period of weeks which hatched but no Queen was seen or eggs laid.

When were these QC's put in there? you probably had a virgin in there when you united

Hi,
[I never saw two Queens in the Q+ box

Possibly because the virgin in the 'Q-' box had killed the one in the Q+ box, thus you'd have only seen one it does happen - don't beat yourself up over it.

 

[bobbybee]

The Queen Cells were introduced over a period of 10 weeks or more allowing for the cycle of hatching mating etc. We tried 3 times and each time the queen cell hatched but no Queens were ever seen and no eggs. The colony was dwindling. So I decided to unite it with the Q+ one. The uniting was done 1 week ago to a Q+ Hive. Now there is no Queen as far as I can see and no eggs anywhere. I will wait.

 

[itma]

Is there any sealed drone brood visible in the hive?

 

[bobbybee]

Is there any sealed drone brood visible in the hive?

No

 

[enrico]

The Queen Cells were introduced over a period of 10 weeks or more allowing for the cycle of hatching mating etc. We tried 3 times and each time the queen cell hatched but no Queens were ever seen and no eggs. The colony was dwindling. So I decided to unite it with the Q+ one. The uniting was done 1 week ago to a Q+ Hive. Now there is no Queen as far as I can see and no eggs anywhere. I will wait.

In my opinion you were too quick to judge! They just need time to get going! If no queen cells produced on a frame of eggs then she is in there somewhere, just let her get on with it, you have combined and now it looks as though a battle ensued! Who knows what will happen now!

E

 

[bobbybee]

In my opinion you were too quick to judge! They just need time to get going! If no queen cells produced on a frame of eggs then she is in there somewhere, just let her get on with it, you have combined and now it looks as though a battle ensued! Who knows what will happen now!

E

I haven't introduced a frame of eggs yet. That is the next thing I will do.

 

[enrico]

I haven't introduced a frame of eggs yet. That is the next thing I will do.

Please don't think I am being critical, just trying to help, but the initial colony that you 'thought' was queen less was the one you should have tried the test frame with before you made the decision to unite. It is so easy to think a colony is queen less when actually it is not, and when you don't have many hives uniting reduces the amount even more. If you had added the frame of eggs to the original colony and there had been no queen cells made then despite the fact that you thought they might be queen less that should have suggested there was one in there somewhere. I also reckon that when you were introducing queen cells they were probably not emerging but being torn down because the WAS a queen in there!
A frame of eggs is such a good indicator if you yourself are not sure about the queen situation.
Hope this helps.
A frame of eggs in the now united colony will also be a. Really good indicator. Let us know the outcome. Thanks
E

 

[Chris B]

Nobody has yet asked the obvious question - was there a queen excluder between the two boxes when you united?

 

[bobbybee]

Nobody has yet asked the obvious question - was there a queen excluder between the two boxes when you united?

Good Question .....Yes there was an excluder between the boxes (two sheets of newspaper held down by the Excluder)

 

[bobbybee]

Please don't think I am being critical, just trying to help, but the initial colony that you 'thought' was queen less was the one you should have tried the test frame with before you made the decision to unite. It is so easy to think a colony is queen less when actually it is not, and when you don't have many hives uniting reduces the amount even more. If you had added the frame of eggs to the original colony and there had been no queen cells made then despite the fact that you thought they might be queen less that should have suggested there was one in there somewhere. I also reckon that when you were introducing queen cells they were probably not emerging but being torn down because the WAS a queen in there!
A frame of eggs is such a good indicator if you yourself are not sure about the queen situation.
Hope this helps.
A frame of eggs in the now united colony will also be a. Really good indicator. Let us know the outcome. Thanks
E

yes I agree that I should have introduced a frame of eggs to the original. Unfortunately none were available. I was only able to acquire sealed queen cells during that period.
My take on all of this is that as the Bees were getting older and a long period without a queen. They were reluctant to accept the Queens and were killing them. To save this dwindling colony I decided to unite it with a good Queen laying colony. I am beginning to think I should have let it dwindle and die. but I wanted to give them a fair go. I will introduce a frame of eggs and see what happens. No worries

 

[sunhivebee]

yes I agree that I should have introduced a frame of eggs to the original. Unfortunately none were available. I was only able to acquire sealed queen cells during that period.
My take on all of this is that as the Bees were getting older and a long period without a queen. They were reluctant to accept the Queens and were killing them. To save this dwindling colony I decided to unite it with a good Queen laying colony. I am beginning to think I should have let it dwindle and die. but I wanted to give them a fair go. I will introduce a frame of eggs and see what happens. No worries

I agree with you. Uniting colonies will often not go well, and needs to be carefully considered. Faced with a good-going colony and a dwindling colony that has resisted several attempts to help it, my choice would always be to dissolve the dwindling colony rather than risk impairing the good one.

I hope that whatever happened, and it does sound as if the virgin queen killed the established one, your colony will settle in time for winter.