Calling 1st Year new bees

[rustic-Crafts]

I just need your opinion now that you have been beekeeping for a year or more.
As a beginner with some experience would you recommend ....

1. Buying a budget flat pack National hive with frames.
2. Buy a complete beginners kit, suit and all.
3. Buy a flat pack Hive with a 14x12 brood box
4. Build your own from Mr T where you can get 14x12 brood box, manley frames and supers with SN5 frames to mix and match etc.

I don't really want to buy a Ferrari and find I'm scared to got fast but then I don't want a Reliant Robin only after 6 months to wish I had got a car with 4 wheels.

For a newcomer there are a lot of options that can only experience can decide which way to go ..I don't have any experience.

 

[Snail368]

I chose the Bees on a Budget kit. Worked well for me. Bought it as a flat pack, simple enough to assemble. Th**nes had to replace Brood box though as the bars were faulty and I had glued them before realizing they were wrong (well it was my first one!).

You soon end up buying more gear though! One hive is never enough...

Good luck!

 

[susbees]

For a newcomer there are a lot of options that can only experience can decide which way to go ..I don't have any experience.

Best idea is to join a local association, do a beginners' course, attend apiary events and practical days, make friends with local beekeepers...and at all these you can talk kit. The kit is the easy bit .

And I run Commercials

 

[enrico]

Buy the best suit you can afford. Bees will live in a box of any sort if it is the right dimensions but if you are getting stung every time you look into them you will soon lose interest. Keep your bees dry and in the right size box and they will be fine. Nothing wrong with budget stuff, it just might not look as nice or last as long. Budget suits however are a total waste of money.... At some point, as a new beekeeper, you will want to be safe in the knowledge that you are bomb proof!!!
Honest!!
E

 

[user 6228]

I just need your opinion now that you have been beekeeping for a year or more.
As a beginner with some experience would you recommend ....

1. Buying a budget flat pack National hive with frames.
2. Buy a complete beginners kit, suit and all.
3. Buy a flat pack Hive with a 14x12 brood box
4. Build your own from Mr T where you can get 14x12 brood box, manley frames and supers with SN5 frames to mix and match etc.

I don't really want to buy a Ferrari and find I'm scared to got fast but then I don't want a Reliant Robin only after 6 months to wish I had got a car with 4 wheels.

For a newcomer there are a lot of options that can only experience can decide which way to go ..I don't have any experience.

national poly with supers ... less worries first winter.

 

[rustic-Crafts]

Regarding the suit - the ones on Ebay to £40 are not worth looking at?

 

[alanf]

Best idea is to join a local association, do a beginners' course, attend apiary events and practical days, make friends with local beekeepers...and at all these you can talk kit. The kit is the easy bit .

And I run Commercials

First find out if you like bees. You do have to tolerate a lot of buzzing around your head at times and you will get stung. So find out how you react first.

As for kit types, it's a lot easier to get help or advice, borrow a frame or nuc box etc if you run the same sizes as at least some of the keepers around you. If you want to go your own way afterwards, that's your choice but find out what the basics offer first.

In practice a lot give up after a year or two. If you have commonly used bits and pieces, you can at least sell them on which cuts your losses.

If you want a budget suit to start, then fair enough. Yes, there are better quality items which last longer but it cuts the initial cost, serves for a couple of seasons and makes a spare for helpers or to be kept in the car eventually.

Probably not worth including an extractor. First year building from a nuc or small swarm won't give a lot of honey. Associations often have them for loan or hire and by the time you want one of your own you'll have a better idea of the sort of capacity to aim for.

I chose the Bees on a Budget kit. Worked well for me. Bought it as a flat pack, simple enough to assemble. Th**nes had to replace Brood box though as the bars were faulty

Not the only one, quite a few boxes seem to have gone out with four top bars or four bottom bars instead of two of each. They do replace the bits by return of post if you get back to them, which is a reasonable service recovery. And you have a bit of cedar that's fairly easy to make into a spare entrance block or whatever which covers some of your wasted time.

If you're at all competent at putting a few bits of wood together, assembling your first hive is an education in itself in what a complete hive consists of and how it goes together.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Regarding the suit - the ones on Ebay to £40 are not worth looking at?

Ebay type are heavy cotton and hot and Low quality Zip on the hood, i have one for freinds visitiing but the zip had to be replaced after a ten weekend of uses

I have two £100+ suits for me ( one in wash, one wearing), and a £90 for the wife, I damaged the veil on one last year and the firm repaired in 5 days...like new

they are however no longer brilliant white

 

[Luminos]

As with everything, buy the best you can afford.
Regarding protective gear: never skimp.

 

[rustic-Crafts]

For you experienced hands - thank you for your input but what I wanted was reactions from New Bees. I have done the research and read the forum so I know what an experienced beekeeper is likely to say. I'm reading the books and waiting for the course.

No body has actually answered my questions apart from Snail368.
Do I go for budget or build yourown hive? I cannot afford to replace all the kit next year when I find out I've bought the wrong sizes etc. National Brood Box or 14x12? As a new bee what did you go for and was it the right decision?

 

[susbees]

I have done the research and read the forum so I know what an experienced beekeeper is likely to say. I'm reading the books and waiting for the course.

Wonderful...so wait and see how the practical side goes. Do you really think loads of last year's beginners are going to say they made a mistake last year and wish they'd gone a different route?

Your hive type depends - probably - on your local "common type"; sensibly on type of bee kept (colony size); your physical strength; your budget. No-one on a forum can best guess any of this, hence my original post .

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi, rustic-Crafts.

I might not answer your questions perfectly - from a different perspective:

I've been hanging round the Forum like a bad smell, waiting to get my bees, since last summer; and I'm still 3 weeks away from knowing if I've got it right!

I went for nationals because it's what's used commonly in these parts. Easy to buy second hand gear, borrow stuff - or flog it if I screwed up. I bought 2 of everything as that's the common advice.

I imagine the next one I buy will be a Warre. 'Cos to my mind it's more 'authentic' - but that's pure ignorant, romantic prejudice.

I bought 14x12 because so many people said they regretted going with standard national brood and having to go brood and a half or double brood. Many seem to regret that decision and agonise about changing over later.

Bought ready made first off, because I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to. I am, however, tight fisted so I'd have made my own rather than go for a cheapo system. Buy cheap, buy twice. Now I've got stuff properly made, I am likely to try flat pack next time. (And, to be fair to myself, I'm not bad at DIY.)

Bought a suit from the BKA for £50. Turns out to be a good buy - decent, thick material. Since then got a second suit - top of the range but actually, a 'second' at the Convention - Flaw in the fabric - £50.

But the last thing to say, rustic-Crafts, is that it is in the nature of 'choice' that each decision is bound to be partially wrong. I think I've made a wrong decision over frames. What ever you decide, the important thing is, either, be highly mature and accept your decision making is likely to be flawed. Or, like me, make your choice and immediately comfort yourself by being totally prejudiced. So whatever you do, don't ever buy those pathetic polystyrene things. They're cr*p.

Enjoy!

Dusty.

 

[nelletap]

I think I felt I could save more money by buying / shopping around in the early months but wish I had bought a budget hive package. Some of the foundation I got was pretty poor quality. I am with a project where we got 2 budget hive packages from Thornes. Look at what is included, though. There are various collections. We bought one of each of 2 packages because we thought this would give us the widest range of bits and pieces. The feeders are pretty flimsy and I think some come with plastic extractors and I wonder whether you'd fairly quickly be irritated with it - small capacity. Much better to borrow extractor from local association when you need it. Don't go for ply hive - it's heavier. When you say you might build your own, do you mean flat pack or build from scratch? Flat pack is a sensible way to save money. However, I don't have a good place to assemble parts and that means I can almost pay to my chiropractor more than I save. The Smocks that came with the Thornes package don't include trousers and are quite basic. The large pocket at the front is one pocket with an opening to left and right so you can put either hand in it like a muff- but this means you can lose things from in there because you are bending to and from and they can fall out. A good all in one seems a good idea. I rather like BeeBasic for protective wear. Good balance between quality and value. I haven't actually interchanged hoods but you can (they say) and this strikes me as useful. Many of the complete packages come with leather gloves which don't look nice for long, seem clumsy and difficult to clean satisfactorily. Various members on here make hives - well worth considering, As far as bees are concerned, nucs from BKA members seem better value and you are likely to get some recommendations as to whose bees are gentle / who is a reliable supplier and not have to either travel long distances (sometimes twice if you need to return the box) or pay for a box as well. It is true you'll then have a nuc box you may find useful but when money is tight you might want to wait until year 2 before investing in one. If you buy separate bits the postage /delivery can add up. Poly seems worth considering. I definitely think you are better joining a BKA and getting some hands on experience because you'll develop some preferences as you actually get involved with the bees and equipment.

 

[rustic-Crafts]

Thanks Dusty, just the sort of feedback I was after. And Susbees thanks for yours but you are obviously very experienced with com hives etc and I just wanted feedback from the other end of the hobby - no offence intended.
nelletap - thanks. when I said build your own hive I was talking about buying different 'bits' via Mr Th as opposed to buying one of their kits. Therefore I could have 14x12 BB and sn5 frames in the suppers, choose which QE etc etc. Although I run a craft business I'll let the experts do the woodwork on this project.

 

[Oscarmonster]

You could get a Lotus, it looks a bit like a Ferrari but is built like a Robin Reliant.

 

[Baggyone]

4th year beeks talking 2nd year experience fro y notes.

14x12 brood boxes. Hoffman spaced frames, bees too prolific for national deep.
supers with castellations in, sn1 frames.
Best suit you can afford.
Do not worry about extractor cos hire from association is a fiver.

Choose hive type now and stick with it. Do not be tempted to mix and match. Framed hive types.

Baggy

 

[FreeFall]

You could get a Lotus, it looks a bit like a Ferrari but is built like a Robin Reliant.

 

[BeeJayBee]

We're new-ish to having our own bees. If your BKA is like ours they will tell you to get a National Hive, and order a nucleus on National Frames without really explaining why. We didn't, because we got our bees a long time before we went on the course.

We looked at the price of 'budget' kits and decided they were expensive, and, although a good way of getting everything on one go there were some bits missing (trousers, for example).

We are using polystyrene Langstroths, mainly because we didn't want to go down the 'brood and a half' Nationals route, which is what many beekeepers here use. We chose polystyrene because we thought it was a good idea, but also have two second-hand wooden ones because the bees were in them when we got them. Ours are Jumbos, which we also thought was a good idea at the time, having talked to several local beekeepers. The brood box frames are big, which was a bit daunting at first, but you get used to them.

Suits - we have a mixture of kit. An excellent full suit from M0dern Beekeeping; a jacket/veil which is worn with a pair of insect repellent trousers (that came from Millets); pull-on veil (from MB) and helmet plus zipped boiler suit. (I wear either the jacket/veil/trousers or veil/helmet and boilersuit, because I find them most comfortable)

Footwear - either Wellies or Rigger Boots.

Gloves - we took the word of people who said leather were no good/too clumsy and use a thick pair of 'heavy duty' plastic, plus thin latex (packs of 20 from 99p shop) over the top. Have been stung, but when messing near hive entrance, when not wearing gloves. Have recently bought some thick, green, nitriles from a farm supplier, to see if they're any good.

Hive tools - have got more than one, including an extra-long one. Each has its use. You won't know which you prefer until you get it.

Smoker - ours is a big Dadant, it was second hand.

Frames - haven't yet tried plastic, but will probably get some to see what they're like.

There's lots of other stuff you'll need, but much of it can be bought from other shops local to you, including a cheap lidded bucket to keep a washing soda solution in - for washing hive tools and gloves between hives and/or after inspections.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Thanks Dusty, just the sort of feedback I was after.

Now I've got stuff properly made, I am likely to try flat pack next time. (And, to be fair to myself, I'm not bad at DIY.)

Thanks, rustic-Crafts.

Let you into a secret. I bought a couple of flat pack supers at the Convention. Made a total b*llocks making one up! Totally ashamed. It's hidden in the recesses of the garage till I can use it for firewood. Never look my old woodwork teacher in the face again.

Don't let on to anyone else on the Forum. I'll be a laughing stock!

A super, for goodness sake!

Dusty.

 

[psafloyd]

Ebay type are heavy cotton and hot and Low quality Zip on the hood, i have one for freinds visitiing but the zip had to be replaced after a ten weekend of uses

I have two £100+ suits for me ( one in wash, one wearing), and a £90 for the wife, I damaged the veil on one last year and the firm repaired in 5 days...like new

they are however no longer brilliant white

I bought a cheap smock off eBay which has proved very good. Heavy cotton and no problems with the zip.
Also got a suit for occasional use for the missus and has proved very good.
I don't disagree you get what you pay for, but that sometimes you can get very good value from some cheap options.