Building a horizontal hive

[Bartlby]

Due to back issues I'm looking at horizontal hives - will probably build my own but to what design (there seem to an unlimited number to chose from) I'm not yet sure. The first thing I came across was the Kenyan Top Bar Hive - I liked its simplicity but the more I read the more I went off it - depth of comb for wintering bees, comb breaking from bars, difficulty with extraction of honey seemed like the main issues.

Then I read more and discovered that there are lots and lots of different horizontal hives out there all with different sizes of frame etc. I found the Layen's hives and I like this a lot and it sent me off reading as much as I could both online and off. The big problem I see with the Layens is extracting the honey - I know you can get larger extractors but it's probably going to cost more and you're certainly not getting a radial extractor. Then I was reading Lazutin's book 'Beekeeping with a Smile' - I think his frames are two Dadant frames attached one above the other (don't have the book in front of me) and he mentions that it makes extracting easy because you just separate them to fit them in an extractor. I haven't read on to see just how they're fitted together and how easy they are to separate - but it did get me thinking.

Searching around online I found someone attaching two Langstroth frames to produce a deep frame - so its not a unique idea. What I now realise that is I can't build a hive until I've settled on a frame size.

I also don't want to build something where if I'm unable to build my own frames the thing becomes unusable (I know Phil Chandler picked the length of the top bar on his KTBH so that it was compatible with the national and says that's been useful) - having the option to buy standard parts seems wise and popular standard parts seem a lot cheaper than less common sizes

I want something I can extract from fairly easily

I want a format (hive/frame) that allows me to expand if I chose/am able - more hives and/or bigger hives

So I'd love to have the input of those with more experience - is adapting standard sized frames to fit a horizontal hive a good idea, what might be the drawbacks/issues, what might be the best frames to do it with, best way to make it work etc

Many thanks in advance

Bruce

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You are obviously looking for a framed hive if you want mechanical extraction, personally I would build it around a National deep (8 7/8") frame.
Most decent radial extractors (depending on frame numbers) will take them, but don't be kidded into believing that tangential extractors are a bad thing.
The Kenyan Top bar (or African top bar as it's more commonly known now) was designed for African bees, Scutellata or Adansonii - smaller bees, smaller colonies, totally different seasonal colony cycles so is never the ideal for the UK, making the top bars and depth larger just brings additional problems with comb collapse etc.

 

[Newbeeneil]

You are obviously looking for a framed hive if you want mechanical extraction, personally I would build it around a National deep (87/8") frame. most decent radial extractors (depending on frame numbers) will take them, but don't be kidded into believing that tangential extractors are a bad thing.

I agree, I based mine around 2 standard nationals insulated with 50mm of PIR foam.
I can even put supers on mine if needed.

 

[Bartlby]

You are obviously looking for a framed hive if you want mechanical extraction, personally I would build it around a National deep (87/8") frame. most decent radial extractors (depending on frame numbers) will take them, but don't be kidded into believing that tangential extractors are a bad thing.
The Kenyan Top bar (or African top bar as it's more commonly known now) was designed for African bees, Scutellata or Adansonii - smaller bees, smaller colonies, totally different seasonal colony cycles so is never the ideal for the UK, making the top bars and depth larger jusy brings additional problems with comb collapse etc.

Thanks for the reply. I didn't know that about the KTBH being designed for different bees - but it makes sense

 

[Bartlby]

I agree, I based mine around 2 standard nationals insulated with 50mm of PIR foam.
I can even put supers on mine if needed.

when you say standard nationals is that the hive boxes or the frames - i.e have to got a horizontal hive that's two boxes long with standard depth national frames or is it a horizontal hive with a deeper frame made up of two national frames - and if so do that sit side by side as in the picture above or one above the other - Thanks in advance

 

[Newbeeneil]

when you say standard nationals is that the hive boxes or the frames - i.e have to got a horizontal hive that's two boxes long with standard depth national frames or is it a horizontal hive with a deeper frame made up of two national frames - and if so do that sit side by side as in the picture above or one above the other - Thanks in advance

It’s 2 boxes long with one layer of standard frames (ignore the castellations as that just a quirk of mine

 

[Bartlby]

View attachment 42014View attachment 42015
It’s 2 boxes long with one layer of standard frames (ignore the castellations as that just a quirk of mine

Looks great - thanks for sharing