Brood spreading

[Finman]

.
I almost love English humour, so called "intellectual poking"

- I move now a frame from here to the center
- No!
- Yes!
- No!
- Yes!
- No!
- I shoot you!

.

 

[Skyhook]

.
I almost love English humour, so called "intellectual poking"

- I move now a frame from here to the center
- No!
- Yes!
- No!
- Yes!
- No!
- I shoot you!

.

 

[rae]

Just try it.

Pick a hive with 7 frames, and stick a frame of foundation in the middle.

At the next inspection you will either see:

1) A full drawn and laid frame in the middle, so the bees are now on 8 frames.

2) A frame of undrawn foundation and a load of pissed off bees glaring at you

If (2), you can say "it doesn't work". Our experience is that you will see (1). If you want a bigger brood nest (more bees in 3 weeks time), then I don't really see the downside.

 

[drstitson]

rae - you forgot to say flip the 2 end brood frames. otherwise well said.

 

[Skyhook]

If I could only find a simple way of creating the drawings I want it would be obvious but I am struggling with the illustrations for this one.

Then again why bother.

PH

I quite understanding your feelings on this PH, but the reason I started this hare running is because it's an area which I think I ought to understand a lot better than I do. While I haven't contributed much as I don't feel I have much to contribute, I've been following it avidly: and judging by the number of views I'm not the only one. A visual would be really helpful, even if it's in biro scanned in- if all else fails I can print it, cut it up, and slide the bits around!

.

 

[Finman]

Just try it.

Pick a hive with 7 frames, and stick a frame of foundation in the middle.

At the next inspection you will either see:

1) A full drawn and laid frame in the middle, so the bees are now on 8 frames.

2) A frame of undrawn foundation and a load of pissed off bees glaring at you

If (2), you can say "it doesn't work". Our experience is that you will see (1). If you want a bigger brood nest (more bees in 3 weeks time), then I don't really see the downside.

if this is meant to me, I just say that I have done that 50 years (after next summer)

if I want a bigger brood nest than 7 frames, I take a frame of emerging bees from a bigger hive.
But if it does not help, I change the queen.
.

 

[mbc]

Just try it.

Pick a hive with 7 frames, and stick a frame of foundation in the middle.

At the next inspection you will either see:

1) A full drawn and laid frame in the middle, so the bees are now on 8 frames.

2) A frame of undrawn foundation and a load of pissed off bees glaring at you

If (2), you can say "it doesn't work". Our experience is that you will see (1). If you want a bigger brood nest (more bees in 3 weeks time), then I don't really see the downside.

I've no objection to anybody giving it a try but in my experience if you pick a hive with 7 frames and leave well alone, at the next inspection you're more likely to see 8 1/2 frames of brood than if you've gone and meddled the frames around.
Another point to consider is the nutrition the brood gets, presumably the bees in an unmolested brood nest are geared towards optimal nutrition for the larvae, increase the amount of brood and ergo the whole will suffer. I'm fairly certain this is one of the reasons I saw an eventual negative impact from brood spreading in my hives ( i.e. bees with shorter lifespans).
Tautz alludes to this in the chapter on heater bees in his excellent book " The Buzz about Bees, Biology of a Superorganism", but hey, lets not properly explore the question, PH has spoken and he says it works !

 

[Finman]

.
As I have said, in Summer I use 3 langstroth brood boxes. I do not play with one frame enlargening. It is plus one box + one medium + one brood and so on.sometimes I lift old winter food frames from edges to the centre of brood area. So bees put the winter food to circulation.

I give a new light brown empty comb to edges because bees love to store pollen there. They need pollen aside the brood.

 

[Finman]

presumably the bees in an unmolested brood nest are geared towards optimal nutrition for the larvae, increase the amount of brood and ergo the whole will suffer. I'm fairly certain this is one of the reasons I saw an eventual negative impact from brood spreading in my hives ( i.e. bees with shorter lifespans).!

if the colony is under one box size, it suffers if you go and try to enlarge the brood area.

I have seen tens of time that bees destroyes larvae from some corner because they cannot keep them warm.

Bees use to spread their brood as much as they can. And then you, in your wisdom come and say, come you can do that and that....then you wonder "why they do not draw foundations even if I said to them!

One reason is that in my continental weather low pressures and high pressues arrive from British Isles in two days and weather changes. The temp may drop 15 degrees and bees have difficulties to keep warm all brood. So they kill and eate part from coldest corners. Yes, I have seen it so many times.

When I have 3 or 4 boxes of bees, they do not mind cold weather or what me as a wise guy have done to them. They reorganize easily the hive if I have mixed it.

.But every extra work costs to them energy and to me lost honey.

.

 

[mbc]

I have seen tens of time that bees destroyes larvae from some corner because they cannot keep them warm.

Bees use to spread their brood as much as they can. And then you, in your wisdom come and say, come you can do that and that....then you wonder "why they do not draw foundations even if I said to them!

.

But surely if you've been shown by an experienced bee farmer how to spread brood you'll know far better than the bees how much brood a colony can effectively cover ?!

 

[Finman]

.
I think bees obey better an unexperienced beekeeper. "fresh ideas", you know

 

[susbees]

But surely if you've been shown by an experienced bee farmer how to spread brood you'll know far better than the bees how much brood a colony can effectively cover ?!

Troublemaker

 

[drstitson]

Sorry to be late picking up on this post:

"I studied in Helsinki University to become geography teacher but it never succeeded."

presumably because you couldn't work out how to get to the classroom?

 

[Finman]

Sorry to be late picking up on this post:

"I studied in Helsinki University to become geography teacher but it never succeeded."

presumably because you couldn't work out how to get to the classroom?

actually I escaped.....

When I found out that number of children had dropped to half from my age children, it meant that it was difficult to get work and get enough hours to get proper earnings.

PH is eager to teach his geography skills once a month. The reason is perhaps that he has been lost on the sea many years on that oil drilling station. He got his idea about "maritime weather".

it is really difficult to understand why Britain is so different that of Finland.
I have in my bee yard 70 cm snow now and in Britain you have +10C warm. It is so impossible to believe.

For long time we have now +1C and snow storm is again coming today. Guess what, from where the weather front is coming: from Britain! It is now in South Sweden. You should keep your weathers there and not to send them to north east.

.

 

[Tim1606]

Don't be too despondent - some of us are eagerly awaiting a fuller explanation then (I) will decide whether it is a method worth trying in each individual case.
Thanks PH for bothering as much as you have so far

I agree keep the info coming


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sorry to be late picking up on this post:

"I studied in Helsinki University to become geography teacher but it never succeeded."

presumably because you couldn't work out how to get to the classroom?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He got his idea about "maritime weather".

it is really difficult to understand why Britain is so different that of Finland.
I have in my bee yard 70 cm snow now and in Britain you have +10C warm. It is so impossible to believe.

It's a technical term Finman - when I did my Met studies for my skipper's ticket it was explained to me why the USA could accurately forecast the weather weeks in advance and we struggled with 24 hours.
Large countries and those that are part of a continent enjoy climate(the general weather conditions prevailing in an area over a long period.) due to the fact the weather fronts roll sedately over great land masses that don't change much from one millenium to the next when winter starts with you nothing changes for months, same as summer.
Whilst islands like Great Britain have weather (the state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards temperature, wind, rain, etc.) most weather front come in over the Atlantic, seas change from one day to the next influencing the anti cyclones therefore making it difficult to forecast accurately but, also these great weather systems from the West counteract the Colder, siberian systems coming from the North and East and the hotter Saharan systems coming from the South this in general it means we don't often have extremes of weather - it may be damp but not soaking, it may be cold but not mind numbingly freezing, it may get hot but not Saharan.So our weather changes from day to day winter starts then stops then starts again ad infinitum
Britain is an island -the definition of island is a piece of land surrounded by water - surrounded by sea water in our case, therefore we have maritime weather.

Too many coco pops this morning I think!!

 

[Finman]

It's a technical term Finman - when I did my Met studies for

Britain is an island -the definition of island is a piece of land surrounded by water - surrounded by sea water in our case, therefore we have maritime weather.

Too many coco pops this morning I think!!

sure sure. i live in Helsinki on the island of sea surrounded salt water. Salt content is only 0,5% compared to your 3%.

Do your definition include raiway tunnel, 100 car ferries, jumbo airplane landing every minute to Heathrow, internet ....

Ands you think yourself that you are in peace on your Island.

Technically half of Dutch are under sea. What is it called then.

 

[The Cumbrian]

I am surprised Finman that given the fact you studies geography you haven't come across "Maritime climate". We certainly covered it in Geography at school.

Incidentally much of what we would call the low countries (Holland Denmark etc) and coastal France can be described as a maritime climate. Obviously being so much out in the sea Britain's climate is a little different even from theirs.

 

[Bob Bee]

sure sure. i live in Helsinki on the island of sea surrounded salt water. Salt content is only 0,5% compared to your 3%.

Do your definition include raiway tunnel, 100 car ferries, jumbo airplane landing every minute to Heathrow, internet ....

Ands you think yourself that you are in peace on your Island.

Technically half of Dutch are under sea. What is it called then.

Now Sub Marine beekeeping, theres a new thread.