Brood Box as Super

[Morgan968]

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone on here use standard National brood boxes instead of supers, I am thinking of switching over to this method so I have just one size box throughout all my hives but was wondering if anyone could advice on the pro's and cons of this as they already do it

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Find yourself a good physiotherapist before starting, I sometimes end up with broods as supers after a Demarree. They are bleddin heavy when full of honey

 

[Morgan968]

Find yourself a good physiotherapist before starting, I sometimes end up with broods as supers after a Demarree. They are bleddin heavy when full of honey

thankfully my wife is one haha I imagine they must be pretty heavy, one rammed super is heavy enough!!

I have 14x12 broods at the momment and just toying with the idea of slowly switching over to standard broods for everything.

 

[GuyNir]

As above, your back will suffer…

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I have used only deep Nationals from day one. I think it was reading on here before I got bees that sent me that way. Michael Palmer, I think it was. One of the thoughtful US beeks, anyway.

The flexibility is amazing.

In good years, getting a super or Demaree box off the top can be an adventure (less of an issue this year). I tend to use a nuc to split the high and heavy ones but luckily I can cope with the rest for now. I can see it would be an issue eventually, though. One similar system uses only National shallows, using 3 for brood. A lot of frames but more manageable.

 

[Patrick1]

It is common practice in America and I am sure other countries, in my apiaries I use one box for everything, so much easier and practicable.

No one suggests you have to lift the whole box off at once, use a wheel barrow and two roofs with a spare box and decant the frames over

 

[Hachi]

It is common practice in America and I am sure other countries, in my apiaries I use one box for everything, so much easier and practicable.

No one suggests you have to lift the whole box off at once, use a wheel barrow and two roofs with a spare box and decant the frames over

Bit of a faff if you have more than one BB full per hive both in time and weight in the barra'

 

[oliver90owner]

Shallows, deeps or extra-deeps can be used as brood boxes or supers (honey boxes). Done it, at times, since starting beekeeping.

Perhaps going to the Rose method with one size of box (between deep and shallow) might be a option?

Shallows as supers is good later in the season - when a deep box may not get filled, and capped, if used as a honey box. Deeps as supers will be worse for the bees early in the season if the weather turns cold.

 

[Worker bee]

I do it and yes they are heavy when full. I can lift and carry them on my own but I get a friend to help most of the time. They take less time to proses because you can fit more honey in them but take longer to fill, so your lifting and prosesing less frames and boxes. I still use supers on weaker hives. You need a big strong hive to fill them fast. I have some hives with a full brood of honey being capped so I've put a super under them to mop up any nectar coming in off the heather because it's unlikely I'll get another full brood out of them. So I still do use supers even on big hives. You can use the frames for splits feed weak hives or splits. When spun out the frames can be put in the middle of breeder queen hives to use as grafting frames. The queen loves freshly spun frames and she will find them all polished up ready to lay in. A lot of advantages can be had. You always have drawn frames for splits and that helps a lot. Old frames can be put up top filled then the wax cut out and fresh frames put in the brood box already drawn. It's highly underrated

 

[oliver90owner]

One other thing to consider, if extracting radially - deeps are more likely to ‘blow’ than shallows. Extra-deeps are good because they are extracted tangentially.

 

[gmonag]

Does anyone on here use standard National brood boxes instead of supers, I am thinking of switching over to this method so I have just one size box throughout all my hives but was wondering if anyone could advice on the pro's and cons of this as they already do it

If you want to use one size of box throughout, you need a box smaller than a National deep, just because of the weight.

 

[Worker bee]

If you want to use one size of box throughout, you need a box smaller than a National deep, just because of the weight.

Depends if you can lift them how many hives you have and if you have a dedicated helper. If you have a lot of hives and nobody to help may be best to use supers. I can lift more than a brood full of honey and I'm 5ft 7 and about 150lb. I could lift 50 and load them alone but I'm used to heavy lifting. I'd prefer not to though easyer with help

 

[gmonag]

Depends if you can lift them how many hives you have and if you have a dedicated helper. If you have a lot of hives and nobody to help may be best to use supers. I can lift more than a brood full of honey and I'm 5ft 7 and about 150lb. I could lift 50 and load them alone but I'm used to heavy lifting. I'd prefer not to though easyer with help

Just being able to lift one is not the point, it is more having to lift 3 or 4 per hive (off then back on again) at each inspection.

 

[Murox]

Manual handling guidelines suggest that the maximum safe lifting weight for a woman is 16kg; while the maximum safe lifting weight for men is 25kg, thats a sack of cement. A full of honey standard national brood box weighs what ? around 30kg maybe more ? I wouldn't attempt the manhandle a box that heavy alone, not forgetting its also potentially full of stinging insects. As was mentioned elsewhere, decanting the frames would be beneficial, if not essential.

 

[enrico]

Why not use shallows throughout, nothing wrong with more than one shallow for brood!

 

[victor meldrew]

Why not use shallows throughout, nothing wrong with more than one shallow for brood!

My old friend used brood boxes . His none PC response to seeing shallows was . Those are for little girls and weaklings!

 

[Morgan968]

Just being able to lift one is not the point, it is more having to lift 3 or 4 per hive (off then back on again) at each inspection.

You raise a good point here, taking off then on again for inspections. I sometimes get little fustrated when there are 4 supers full to take off and on again for inspections let a lone a full broodbox.

Thank you everyone for your imput on this, I have a feeling due to me doing it all on my own and having nearly 30 hives it may just be best I stick with 14x12 broods and shallows as my supers

 

[GuyNir]

My old friend used brood boxes . His none PC response to seeing shallows was . Those are for little girls and weaklings!

And ones with much better back in 5-10 years time.

 

[victor meldrew]

And ones with much better back in 5-10 years time.

Tell me about it , I have a couple of hives with 5 supers on . Taking the top ones off and replacing is a pain .
Though heavier, using deep broods would mean less lifting I suppose .
I don’t think I’ll put it to the test .

 

[Murox]

Why not use shallows throughout, nothing wrong with more than one shallow for brood!

Its an interesting notion, does anyone do that already ? I do wonder about wintering on that setup - thinking about how reluctant, or not, bees might be to crossing potentially multiple frame gaps vertically. Do they prefer to live / do better on / survive winter more successfully on basically just one vertical plain??
edit - and how about looking for the queen, could be a LOT of frames!!