British black bees in Wiltshire

[andybeehive]

I have read with great interest that a Wiltshire beekeeper (Chris Wilkes) is setting up a British black bee breading station at Imber church on the Salisbury Plane (in both the Daily Mail and Sunday Times this weekend).

In the Daily Mail article it states the site is 5 mile from the nearest colony of “common bees”, this may be the case by road but there are apiaries in Bratton (3.11 miles), Edington (3.04 miles), Erlestoke (3.02 miles), Westbury (4.5 miles) and Warminster 4.5 (miles) [distances measured as the crow flies from google earth (including my own Buckfast and Wiltshire mongrel colonies)].


Is the Imber site isolated enough to maintain and breed pure strain British black bees?? I’ve read various articles that claim queens can travel upto and sometimes over 5 miles to mate although drones appear to be more local.


Quotes from the Dialy Mail (19th August 2013)….

“It is very difficult to breed pure lines of bees because it only takes a few feral ones to give you a mongrel breed.”

“But Imber gives us a great chance to breed a pure strain of British black bees.”

 

[user 6228]

I have read with great interest that a Wiltshire beekeeper (Chris Wilkes) is setting up a British black bee breading station at Imber church on the Salisbury Plane (in both the Daily Mail and Sunday Times this weekend).

In the Daily Mail article it states the site is 5 mile from the nearest colony of “common bees”, this may be the case by road but there are apiaries in Bratton (3.11 miles), Edington (3.04 miles), Erlestoke (3.02 miles), Westbury (4.5 miles) and Warminster 4.5 (miles) [distances measured as the crow flies from google earth (including my own Buckfast and Wiltshire mongrel colonies)].


Is the Imber site isolated enough to maintain and breed pure strain British black bees?? I’ve read various articles that claim queens can travel upto and sometimes over 5 miles to mate although drones appear to be more local.


Quotes from the Dialy Mail (19th August 2013)….

“It is very difficult to breed pure lines of bees because it only takes a few feral ones to give you a mongrel breed.”

“But Imber gives us a great chance to breed a pure strain of British black bees.”

Lundy would be a good site ... may be not ... not that much forage

 

[Norton]

Not isolated enough. Drones have been recorded as traveling 18kms from their parent hive. Queens rarely mate near their own hives and it is thought that the average distance is about 2,5kms.

 

[Hachi]

I know the area reasonably well and can confirm there are so called mongrel bees closer than he thinks

 

[pargyle]

I know the area reasonably well and can confirm there are so called mongrel bees closer than he thinks

Can't think of many places in the UK where it would be sufficiently isolated ... Salisbury Plain is largely devoid of any introduced wildlife in recent years (except for a few military types !) but it's not that far from civilisation and I would think, other bee colonies ... you only need one feral swarm to take up residence and the whole exercise becomes uncertain.

Wish him luck though ....

 

[Cie]

Having met Chris at work about 3 years ago he only talked about the fact that he had the central training area sewn up. Maybe this is just a way of getting a few hives out onto the western area; of course in time more hives will be needed over a wider area etc etc

 

[user 6228]

Can't think of many places in the UK where it would be sufficiently isolated ... Salisbury Plain is largely devoid of any introduced wildlife in recent years (except for a few military types !) but it's not that far from civilisation and I would think, other bee colonies ... you only need one feral swarm to take up residence and the whole exercise becomes uncertain.

Wish him luck though ....

scilly islands

http://www.ios-aonb.info/projects/isles-scilly-honeybee-project/

 

[For want of a better word]

Not isolated enough. Drones have been recorded as traveling 18kms from their parent hive. Queens rarely mate near their own hives and it is thought that the average distance is about 2,5kms.

But everyone who knows anything about black bees knows that they mate in the early evening even in high winds and drizzel... so if you hold the virgin queens and drones back until any self respecting Ligurian/Carniolian or buckfast mixymongrel is safely eating its stores... you should be OK

 

[DanBee]

Lundy would be a good site ... may be not ... not that much forage

As per Norton's comment. Jon Atkinson (Better Bee Breeding) tried Lundy and had problems with drones drifting in from the mainland.

 

[beebreeder]

Chris was on South Today earlier this week talking about the project and he said black bee genetics would be bought in to the gene pool as the years progress. Having worked with the spitefull things in my early days with bees, I am sticking to my Buckfast british bee, after all it was bred for our climate after the black was wiped out by acarine

 

[Norton]

To see if the site is secure, take some virgin queens there without drones and leave them for a month. If they they start laying worker brood start looking for another site. Very few areas offer secure mating sites.

 

[psafloyd]

Can't think of many places in the UK where it would be sufficiently isolated ... Salisbury Plain is largely devoid of any introduced wildlife in recent years (except for a few military types !) but it's not that far from civilisation and I would think, other bee colonies ... you only need one feral swarm to take up residence and the whole exercise becomes uncertain.

Wish him luck though ....

Not that far from civilisation? You ever been to Wiltshire?

 

[Stiffy]

scilly islands

http://www.ios-aonb.info/projects/isles-scilly-honeybee-project/

I visit the islands fairly regularly for work. As I understand they introduced some imported queens to help improve them, so they already have like the rest of us, their own mongrel stock. I think the article is an attempt to draw in some money, no bad thing I guess?
S

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[For want of a better word]

Chris was on South Today earlier this week talking about the project and he said black bee genetics would be bought in to the gene pool as the years progress. Having worked with the spitefull things in my early days with bees, I am sticking to my Buckfast british bee, after all it was bred for our climate after the black was wiped out by acarine[/QUOTE]

Is this anecdotal, or is there published data to conform this " fact"?
From what I have read it would appear that dear old BA never perfected his frankensteinbee, and his evidence of the disappearance of the native, endemic, black bee was only within the area where he was keeping bees, and of course in his own little abbey garden apiary, where all his black bee colonies perished along with many of his hybrid Italian.

BA also proposed the Dadant size of Hive was far better for keeping "buckfast Itialian x black" bee than the National, due to the rapid spring build up of the crosses.
Seems there are still a lot of Nationals about.

(frankensteinbee..... a cross / hybrid manipulated by man that does not appear in nature)

 

[pargyle]

Not that far from civilisation? You ever been to Wiltshire?

I'm hoping to retire there in a couple of years time .... I should feel right at home !!

 

[Stiffy]

I'm hoping to retire there in a couple of years time .... I should feel right at home !!

You think Wiltshire is bad try living in the SW where it take some years for some to catch-up with society.
Recently heard:
'Don't want change down here boy, he down the road once changed his pants and now look at im , out every night up to no good'!
(please add strong west country accent)

S

 

[For want of a better word]

I'm hoping to retire there in a couple of years time .... I should feel right at home !!

Bring your banjo ...... you could do a duet with Sniffy !

 

[Stiffy]

Beware the forum Troll who has nothing to say or add apart from provoking an argument, all very sad and boring


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[pargyle]

Beware the forum Troll who has nothing to say or add apart from provoking an argument, all very sad and boring


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Who is that then ?

 

[Greatbigchicken]

Not that far from civilisation? You ever been to Wiltshire?

Oigh, I'm Wiltshire born and bread, I resemble that remark.