Bees like large comb?

[bjosephd]

I hear it often said that bees far 'prefer' large unbroken expanses of comb. The larger the better.

Is this logical anecdote? Generally agreed 'fact'? Or nonsense?

I'm just pondering various ideas ie using deep dadant frames if I make a 'long' hive. Or using many (shallow?) supers if I were to use a more manageable/liftable size for a one size box approach.

I'm guessing one mimics nature better but is harder to manipulate and manage.

But then I've also seen cut outs on the internet in very narrow roof spaces where the bees have happily built many many very shallow combs horizontally, but then of course they don't need to strictly 'jump a gap' so to speak since they are horizontal not vertical.

 

[B+.]

But then I've also seen cut outs on the internet in very narrow roof spaces where the bees have happily built many many very shallow combs horizontally, but then of course they don't need to strictly 'jump a gap' so to speak since they are horizontal not vertical.

Bees are remarkably adaptable creatures. They will make their home almost anywhere.
A hive is a human construct, for our benefit, to aid our "management" of the colony.
I think, you have to consider your own abilities. If you have muscles like Atlas (or have lots of friends to help you), by all means, use Dadant....but they are very heavy.

 

[bjosephd]

If you have muscles like Atlas (or have lots of friends to help you), by all means, use Dadant....but they are very heavy.

I would ONLY use dadant frames for a long hive, so no vertical hefting of boxes, only one frame at a time manipulations - potentially engineered to be able to out shallow supers on too.

My langstroth BBs are PLENTY heavy enough!

 

[B+.]

I would ONLY use dadant frames for a long hive, so no vertical hefting of boxes, only one frame at a time manipulations - potentially engineered to be able to out shallow supers on too.

My langstroth BBs are PLENTY heavy enough!

Maybe TremyFro can advise you. She has long hives.

I would still have thought they would need to be moved eventually? This is when you'd potentially have a problem.

 

[bjosephd]

Maybe TremyFro can advise you. She has long hives.



I would still have thought they would need to be moved eventually? This is when you'd potentially have a problem.

Indeed... I'm wondering if it could be designed with big wheels at one end so it could be moved like a rather odd big cart/wheelbarrow?

 

[Finman]

I hear it often said that bees far 'prefer' large unbroken expanses of comb. The larger the better.

.

I have never heard that. Frames have been made for beekeepers' conviniency.

The bigger, the bad for back. Many beekeepers have stopped the job for back pains.

 

[bjosephd]

I have never heard that. Frames have been made for beekeepers' conviniency.



The bigger, the bad for back. Many beekeepers have stopped the job for back pains.

I'm talking about what bees prefer. Hence the title of the post. Would they be just as happy in triple lang BB as they would in 7 shallow supers? I imagine not.

I'm surprised you have never heard this mentioned anywhere in your many years of beekeeping. I have read it a number of times.

 

[Finman]

I'm talking about what bees prefer. Hence the title of the post. Would they be just as happy in triple lang BB as they would in 7 shallow supers? I imagine not.

I'm surprised you have never heard this mentioned anywhere in your many years of beekeeping. I have read it a number of times.

I do not believe that anyone has asked it . Rubbish talking. That is all.

What bees like to do it is sting me.

I understand very well English and headlines, but the issues are not often very clever.
.
About 3 BB + 7 mediums. I do not ask they happines. I am happy when I get 150 kg honey.

 

[bjosephd]

Ok

 

[Tremyfro]

Indeed... I'm wondering if it could be designed with big wheels at one end so it could be moved like a rather odd big cart/wheelbarrow?

I find the 14x12 frames OK to lift...well once I got the technique!. My long hives...aka Beehaus ....have about 21 frames...or you can use just one side of it. You can use half or whole supers on top too...if you want.
As regards moving the hive...when empty...it's easy enough. With bees inside...we just pick it up by the legs and 'walk' it to a new location. If moving it further...you can lift it onto a trailer...we have a small one we can pull with a car.
Otherwise, you can decant the frames into 14x12 jumbo nationals for travelling.
I think wooden long hives would be more of a challenge...so decanting it would work better I think. Wheels are great and could be part of your build...but may give the bees a bumpy ride across grass.
It is still possible to use a QE between your brood and honey frames...but it has to be vertical of course. The attraction in long hives is that the brood nest is fairly clearly defined, at it largest, and the queen doesn't lay in the honey frames. So the QE becomes redundant. As the brood nest contracts...the bees fill the empty brood frames with honey...and that becomes their winter stores. Honey stores beyond that becomes the beekeepers. Mind you, that only happens if you get a good harvest...ha ha.
Thinking about frame sizes.....if the frames are really big then extracting becomes crush and strain as they wont fit in an extractor...and are likely to blow.
This year, I'm going to use smaller frames in the second half of the hive...as I can fit them in the extractor. As the bees tend to elongate the frames to fit the space...I can use that as comb honey or put a block of insulation under them to reduce the space below.

 

[madasafish]

Indeed... I'm wondering if it could be designed with big wheels at one end so it could be moved like a rather odd big cart/wheelbarrow?

Couple of planks laid length wise in the direction of travel.. with rear two legs of hive just resting on planks.
Lift front legs and pull rear legs along planks in direction of travel until plank end reached. Move planks and start again.

That is how I move TBHs on my own.

 

[B+.]

That is how I move TBHs on my own.

Ingenious!
The next thing you know, you'll be building stone circles in out-of-the-way places and founding a new religion! ;-)

 

[madasafish]

Ingenious!
The next thing you know, you'll be building stone circles in out-of-the-way places and founding a new religion! ;-)

What a great idea.. Crowdfunding to follow!

 

[B+.]

What a great idea.. Crowdfunding to follow!

 

[bjosephd]

...The attraction in long hives is that the brood nest is fairly clearly defined, at it largest, and the queen doesn't lay in the honey frames. So the QE becomes redundant. As the brood nest contracts...the bees fill the empty brood frames with honey...and that becomes their winter stores. Honey stores beyond that becomes the beekeepers. Mind you, that only happens if you get a good harvest...ha ha.

Thinking about frame sizes.....if the frames are really big then extracting becomes crush and strain as they wont fit in an extractor...and are likely to blow.

This year, I'm going to use smaller frames in the second half of the hive...as I can fit them in the extractor. As the bees tend to elongate the frames to fit the space...I can use that as comb honey or put a block of insulation under them to reduce the space below.

Interesting stuff.

Do you find since the bees (apart from obviously moving up the comb) ever struggle to move along the box in the 'cold way' direct, since in long box the frames can only ever be aligned in one orientation in that particular space. I may have read that having to travel the cold way for stores has more potential for isolation starvation.

Also, I totally love your idea of putting in shallower frames and effectively lifting the floor to meet them for more manageable extractable frames. Inspired!

 

[Into the lions den]

Bees prefer bigger combs.

We did the tests back in the 1980's to prove it and posted the results on here some years ago which if I recall was more a thread about starter strips being a false economy. Not going to dig them all out again.

They fill a BS deep just about as fast as a shallow. Colonies run on all deeps, all the same spacing, and all drawn comb did the best of all.

If starting again I would not have a shallow box in the place.

 

[MadAnt]

Tremyfro, what is the story about treatment? How do you manage frames?

 

[bjosephd]

Bees prefer bigger combs.



We did the tests back in the 1980's to prove it and posted the results on here some years ago which if I recall was more a thread about starter strips being a false economy. Not going to dig them all out again.



They fill a BS deep just about as fast as a shallow. Colonies run on all deeps, all the same spacing, and all drawn comb did the best of all.



If starting again I would not have a shallow box in the place.

Interesting. I imagine uninterrupted comb is closer to 'nature' and also I imagine easier for heat regulation.

What was the thought about starter strips being false economy? That they use huge amounts of energy and nectar to make wax etc. And takes longer?

 

[Tremyfro]

Interesting stuff.

Do you find since the bees (apart from obviously moving up the comb) ever struggle to move along the box in the 'cold way' direct, since in long box the frames can only ever be aligned in one orientation in that particular space. I may have read that having to travel the cold way for stores has more potential for isolation starvation.

Also, I totally love your idea of putting in shallower frames and effectively lifting the floor to meet them for more manageable extractable frames. Inspired!

All my frames are warm way...not that it seems to make any difference to the bees. They move readily across the frames as there is space at the sides, underneath and top bee space. Of course, they also make holes for access too.
What I have found is that by putting insulation under the OMF...it's held in place with the large varroa board and a hive strap....the bees build and use the comb much nearer the base of the hive body...whereas....before I did that brood wasn't laid in the very lowest part of the comb. The OMF on the hives is large as it is all the way across the equivalent of two 14x12 jumbo boxes...so a large area. We live in a windy location so shutting off the OMF seemed advantageous. There is air flow around the edges though. Also my long hives are well insulated in the walls and roof. So in essence...they are much like a horizontal log. Hopefully Pargyle will come on this thread as he is a wealth of information about his long hive. He is treatment free...but I'm unsure exactly how he manages his hive.
I now do sugar rolls during the summer months to see the varroa load situation. I use a varrox if the load is high...or climbing. Last year I treated all my bees for nosema by spraying with a thymol syrup spray. It appears that nosema is endemic in bees. Using thymol in the winter syrup helps.
I rotate the dark brood comb out where I can. I made slides to see the nosema spores under the microscope. So lots of monitoring.
More than anything though...keeping bees in long hives is such a pleasure. I know many beekeepers call them drone machines and only good for splits...but that has not been my experience so far. I get enough honey for our needs.
There is very little lifting as the honey stores are just moved aside. The brood frames can be inspected but there is no splitting of the brood so the bees are less disturbed. The half size covers mean you only have to uncover a few frames at a time. Doing swarm control is also easier in that you can do a sideways demarree...no lifting heavy brood boxes...just move the brood along the rails...insert a separating board with a QE in it. The queen stays in the front part with the flyers and new foundation...done. If you want you can take a nuc off when they build queen cells.
I can only tell you what I have done and experienced and am not in any way an experienced beekeeper....just a learning one.

 

[Finman]

Interesting. I imagine uninterrupted comb is closer to 'nature' and also I imagine easier for heat regulation.

?

Perhaps difficult to extract. Main point in beekeeping.
.