Bees Know Best?

[drstitson]

On Sunday took the chance and checked all hives quickly between downpours - as per WDYDITAT thread - smaller ones needed feeding, larger two thriving - one filling 2 brood boxes and the other one having not touched new box of 14x12 foundation but had started storing in super. The latter had 3 well formed "supercedure" cells on face of comb - decent sized but open. Larvae in each.

Due to weather ended up doing a can't find the queen type AS with snelgrove board.

Checked the top box just now - original cells as before but empty. Lots of play cups everywhere else also all empty. So no need to hurredly ready any nucs!!!! Reunited the two halves of the colony in Bailey change type mode - 14x12, QE, super, QE, Brood.

Presumably despite best attempts to minimise disruption there was significant chilling and or the weather since has convinced the bees not to go through with the process. anyone else have any useful suggestions

At least now i (hopefully) have breathing space with this colony AND the opportunity to get them off of their old combs (actually in smith frames with double glued together plastic ends) - will be useful in bait hives.

 

[Midland Beek]

Hmm ... I maybe would not think in terms of 'smaller ones need feeding/bigger ones will need AS sometime soon'. Instead, you might like to consider trying to equalize the strength of colonies by donataing a little sealed brood from stronger to weaker, and food frames can also be moved around in a similar way.

 

[drstitson]

Good point MB -
might consider giving a couple of frames from the strongest hive to the two weakest - particularly since any brood that emerges over next week or so won't be contributing to the rape harvest (if there is one!). Don't want to weaken too much though as planning to shook swarm/bailey change onto 14x12 at some point soon (of course that will be perfect time to donate more brood to anyone in need).

 

[mbc]

On Sunday took the chance and checked all hives quickly between downpours - as per WDYDITAT thread - smaller ones needed feeding, larger two thriving - one filling 2 brood boxes and the other one having not touched new box of 14x12 foundation but had started storing in super. The latter had 3 well formed "supercedure" cells on face of comb - decent sized but open. Larvae in each.

Due to weather ended up doing a can't find the queen type AS with snelgrove board.

Checked the top box just now - original cells as before but empty. Lots of play cups everywhere else also all empty. So no need to hurredly ready any nucs!!!! Reunited the two halves of the colony in Bailey change type mode - 14x12, QE, super, QE, Brood.

Presumably despite best attempts to minimise disruption there was significant chilling and or the weather since has convinced the bees not to go through with the process. anyone else have any useful suggestions

At least now i (hopefully) have breathing space with this colony AND the opportunity to get them off of their old combs (actually in smith frames with double glued together plastic ends) - will be useful in bait hives.

I'm a bit confused Doc, were there any 'charged' queen cells ?( queen cells with larvae )
EDIT : I'm not so confused after reading the post properly, sorry !

 

[Tom Bick]

On Sunday took the chance and checked all hives quickly between downpours - as per WDYDITAT thread - smaller ones needed feeding, larger two thriving - one filling 2 brood boxes and the other one having not touched new box of 14x12 foundation but had started storing in super. The latter had 3 well formed "supercedure" cells on face of comb - decent sized but open. Larvae in each.

Due to weather ended up doing a can't find the queen type AS with snelgrove board.

Checked the top box just now - original cells as before but empty. Lots of play cups everywhere else also all empty. So no need to hurredly ready any nucs!!!! Reunited the two halves of the colony in Bailey change type mode - 14x12, QE, super, QE, Brood.

Presumably despite best attempts to minimise disruption there was significant chilling and or the weather since has convinced the bees not to go through with the process. anyone else have any useful suggestions

At least now i (hopefully) have breathing space with this colony AND the opportunity to get them off of their old combs (actually in smith frames with double glued together plastic ends) - will be useful in bait hives.

Don’t understand that bit you have performed a Demaree swarm prevention not a Bailey comb change?

 

[drstitson]

Tom - was always intending to get the bees onto 14x12. Carried out demaree using snelgrove when QCs found. However on checking 4 days later NO viable QCs present. So just united back now that HM and co are happy on the 14x12 at bottom. So now effectively in Bailey mode!!!!

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes no problem just as long as you know what you want to achieve it sounds like a lot going on in a short time.

It’s a Supercedure, Snelgrove, Demaree, Bailey procedure

 

[drstitson]

yes - i'd hoped to get a couple of queens out of it but no such luck so just happy to take opportunity to get onto the 14x12 as planned longer term.

BTW have gone with your idea - strongest colony has now donated a couple of frames to weakest ones. all feeders topped up too.

 

[ColinS]

Hi Dr S
I'm also trying to move a colony onto P's poly 14x12 frames, since late March, when a friend gave me them in a wood national.

2 Sundays ago on a frame hardly drawn there was a (supercedure) QC middle top of a frame, 3 in from left. nearest fully drawn comb a frame over. This Tuesday no sign of the cup and HM was walking on 2nd left still undrawn frame. All the fully drawn comb had eggs, sealed brood and arches of stores above and one side of just sealed stores.
I think HM had not been venturing over there and so they either drew a play cup or thought she needed replacing due to lack of pheromone in such a big box but now she had run out of space/cells but with still a few frames to be drawn and is looking where to lay.

I have now have floor, wood Nat BB, QE, 14x12, QE, feeder. I have gone through various combinations of above (incl super with wired in brood from the wild comb) and frame locations but found they would rather build under nat frames then go sideways into 14x12 - hence now the 2 QE's. On Tuesday I was also able to remove 3 completely empty nat frames from the 7 left and put more kingspan into fill gap in the wood nat BB. Maybe today if weather good I will take wood away completely if all the brood has hatched and the stores been moved up. If stores not gone up friend can have frame as she has already had to do an AS. I will also feed syrup to help them draw out in this weather.

Any way just wanted to say having similiar experience with QC's in 14x12 there and then gone but finally expanding sideways and hopefully not out.

 

[drstitson]

My original QCs were in the nat box - 14x12 had no evidence of any comb drawing at all.

 

[Tom Bick]

yes - i'd hoped to get a couple of queens out of it but no such luck so just happy to take opportunity to get onto the 14x12 as planned longer term.

BTW have gone with your idea - strongest colony has now donated a couple of frames to weakest ones. all feeders topped up too.

Sometimes we have to be flexible and adaptable in time they just may present you with several queen cells.

I am looking forward to queen rearing this year but my problem is my bees were ahead of me and I am still in the process of sorting it all out but we will get there and I am in no rush.

I am also feeding a couple and was just thinking this time last year.....