Balled Queen

[Raf]

On two occasions I have re-introduced a queen I have clipped only to see the bees immediately ball and kill her.

The clipping is done quickly no longer than 1 or 2 minutes. On the second occasion I left 2 or 3 workers in the Queen marking cage with her. I clip just the last 3rd of one wing only, and I do not touch the Queen to ensure there is no transfer of scent.

Interested is anyone else has experienced the same?

 

[Finman]

Interested is anyone else has experienced the same?

No, not at all.

Killing queens, yes, lots.

Clipping has no effect on killing. Queen istalling is sometimes very difficult.
You see it when bees bite the installing cage. The queen is doomed to death.

This is one of the best installing cages, The queen starts to lay in the cage.

 

[Finman]

.
If the hive does not want a queen, wait that its own queen cells are capped.
Then there is no difficulties.
It takes 4-5 days when emercengy cells are capped.

 

[Arfermo]

On two occasions I have re-introduced a queen I have clipped only to see the bees immediately ball and kill her.

The clipping is done quickly no longer than 1 or 2 minutes. On the second occasion I left 2 or 3 workers in the Queen marking cage with her. I clip just the last 3rd of one wing only, and I do not touch the Queen to ensure there is no transfer of scent. Interested is anyone else has experienced the same?

I am not in least bit surprised she was balled frankly. It often happens if due care and consideration is not applied. The only way to maximise the potential for the new queen to be safe until she is accepted by her new colony, is to use a queen introduction cage. Bought in bees arrive in cages for that very purpose. New queen or merely clipping the resident queeen - same situation - she is not the same as she was.

 

[MandF]

Did I read the OP wrong or something?

The way I read it is that he removed a queen, clipped her, and then put her straight back into the hive after only a couple of minutes out.

Not introducing a new queen?

 

[YorkshireBees]

On two occasions I have re-introduced a queen I have clipped only to see the bees immediately ball and kill her.

The clipping is done quickly no longer than 1 or 2 minutes. On the second occasion I left 2 or 3 workers in the Queen marking cage with her. I clip just the last 3rd of one wing only, and I do not touch the Queen to ensure there is no transfer of scent.

Interested is anyone else has experienced the same?

I think people are mis-understanding the above.

As I read it Raf is saying that the balling occurs with a Queen taken out of a hive, clipped and then put back in.
Not a Queen being introduced to a new hive!

Personally I do not clip queens (only as I haven't got to that stage of skill yet) and try to watch very carefully to make sure a Queen isn't balled after marking.
So far I am not aware any have been but I do remember once it looked like the Queen was starting to be balled. I just carefully disturbed the bees with my finger so she could run off down the frame.

 

[itma]

Raf, were you marking at the same time as clipping?
And if so, with what?

After marking, I try to be patient before releasing Q from the crown of thorns. I'm told she could stay, loose in there, for a few minutes with the frame rested into the hive. Might help you to see what was happening.

Gloves and scissors thoroughly washed each time?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can hear the tambourines already, and hark! is that the big bass drum I hear banging away in the distance? they'll all be on here soon
I wish the rain would stop

 

[Raf]

Hi all,

Thanks for great feedback, the queens were not new, but established laying queens that I removed, clipped and re-introduced several minutes later.

On both occassions both queens were already marked.

Finman - What a great idea for the introduction cage!!!

 

[fiftyjon]

Raf, were you marking at the same time as clipping?
And if so, with what?

After marking, I try to be patient before releasing Q...

A little smoke can be helpful to hide any foreign smells, also release the queen where she would be expected to be by the bees.

 

[protheroe]

i recently clipped a number of last years queens,checked a week later and 2 had gone with capped and open queen cells in the hives and no loss of bees through swarming.

 

[Alabamaeee]

I used one of these last year with good results

http://www.beckysbeesonlineshop.co.uk/queen-introduction-cage-1076-p.asp

Instructions

The cage is pressed into sealed brood on a frame that you have first shaken the bees off. The new queen is introduced into the cage which can be sealed with the cap or there is a fondant compartment that can be used - if using a fondant plug you need to be sure the brood will emerge before the worker bees outside the cage have eaten through the fondant.

having put your queen into the cage she is on her own with the sealed brood. As the young bees emerge they will immediately accept the queen as they know no difference. After plenty of young bees have emerged, which may take a few days the cap, if used, can be removed so that the queen can escape in her own time, do not to this too early. The cage can then be removed once the queen has left.

Ensure you leave enough space for the bees to be able to feed the queen through the cage.

 

[Arfermo]

Finman - What a great idea for the introduction cage!!!

My remark above about putting newly marked/clipped queens in an introduction cage so as to be safe rather than sorry was a tip from a beek who has now kept bees for over 75 years. I follow suit but you can do whatever you prefer and take pot luck.

 

[For want of a better word]

On two occasions I have re-introduced a queen I have clipped only to see the bees immediately ball and kill her.

The clipping is done quickly no longer than 1 or 2 minutes. On the second occasion I left 2 or 3 workers in the Queen marking cage with her. I clip just the last 3rd of one wing only, and I do not touch the Queen to ensure there is no transfer of scent.

Interested is anyone else has experienced the same?

Mentioned this to a very experienced now retired beekeeper....
He clipped and marked all of his queens and must have done 100s.... only clipped and marked once queen was laying, either in Apidea or superceedure or introduction of new queen.

He was not sure what was meant by "balling" as he had never experienced it,
new queens were introduced with a gentle spray of " 'ardly sugar'd & warm'd wat'r from wat'r butt"... not that 'orrible chlorinated stuff from the tap!

He never wore gloves and never has smoked.

Said my Apis mellifera mellifera reminded him of " propper bees"!

?

​

?​

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Finman - What a great idea for the introduction cage!!!

They are available commercially in plastic I bought one to have a look at last year from that supplier down Cernwy way - comes with an entrance to put candy on and everything.looks good - haven't tried it yet thought

 

[Finman]

.
what a mesh!

you take to hand a queen then you put it back and it is re-introducing. Surely not. I have taken a queen hundreds of time to hand and bees have never killed a queen that for.

Put the queen back into the hive is not re-intoducing.

I could imagine that if you fingers have sting poiston, and it is transmitted to queen. Odd case.

 

[Raf]

Wow, Finman, I would comment back but don't have a clue what you on about??!!??