Assembling frames

[frankenstine]

I have an odd query here. I bought a poly Langstroth in kit form. When assembling the frames. The side rails are handed with chamfer.
Depending on how these are fitted makes the frames handed.
To a point as long as they all are the same it dosent matter how I hand them. But I were to buy some assembled frames I feel I feel I chould really myself a problem.

so my question is. Is there a convention for orientation of side rails I’m unaware of ?

 

[user 819]

Sounds like they are Hoffman self spacing, flat one side and chamfered the opp side. How the frames are orientated it matters not.

 

[ericbeaumont]

No, it doesn't matter unless you assemble the frame with the side bar grooves on the outside (I've done it).

 

[jool]

Hes using langstroth with its lack of grooves so Hoffman's can be built wrong. I build mine the same as a national. Right side flat towards you when held by the lugs

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

as long as the flat/chamfered sides are always on the same side, matters not

 

[madasafish]

I use a simple jig to assemble 9 lang frames - any size - at a time.
Makes aligning the side bars easy: do one side the same way, then the opposite side the other way..

I started of without a jig.. A batch of 10 frame assembled incorrectly taught me...

 

[Antipodes]

I use a simple jig to assemble 9 lang frames - any size - at a time.
Makes aligning the side bars easy: do one side the same way, then the opposite side the other way..

I started of without a jig.. A batch of 10 frame assembled incorrectly taught me...

Funny thing, our langstroth side bars here are impossible to get wrong.

 

[Amari]

Hes using langstroth with its lack of grooves so Hoffman's can be built wrong. I build mine the same as a national. Right side flat towards you when held by the lugs

as long as the flat/chamfered sides are always on the same side, matters not

No, it doesn't matter unless you assemble the frame with the side bar grooves on the outside (I've done it).

No need for any brain work. As Eric says, if the grooves on the side bars (down which the foundation will slide) face inwards then the orientation will be correct.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No need for any brain work. As Eric says, if the grooves on the side bars (down which the foundation will slide) face inwards then the orientation will be correct.

They're Langs - so they probably don't have any grooves

 

[ericbeaumont]

They're Langs - so they probably don't have any grooves

JBM is right and I was wrong (result of thinking after midnight): Langs have no grooves. The question was asked way back in 2009 but no hint of common Hoffman orientation was mentioned.

I've seen the problem in Nationals where UK frames had mingled with others made in the EU: assume that they were made with Hoffmans cut opposite to UK convention; felt weird putting flats against flats and bevels against bevels.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've seen the problem in Nationals where UK frames had mingled with others made in the EU

Only time I've seen that was with Chinese frames ,a lot of traders were selling these a few years ag - you could tell them as they were sold in tens in nice carboard boxes (I think if they bought them by the container load, the supplier would also print their trading name on the box) Many of the Langstroth frames I saw in Southern Africa had no bevels at all - so both sides were flats against flats

 

[Amari]

They're Langs - so they probably don't have any grooves

JBM is right and I was wrong (result of thinking after midnight): Langs have no grooves. The question was asked way back in 2009 but no hint of common Hoffman orientation was mentioned.

Oops, apols.

 

[frankenstine]

Well at least I don’t feel quite as daft as I did asking the question. The frames are for a Lang poly Hive (Lyson ) They are a Hoffman self spacing frame. There are no grooves on the side bars

so as far as I understand atm there is no set convention And they chould go any way as long as they are all the same. Is there A convention for other types of hive like a national ?

 

[ericbeaumont]

The frames are for a Lang poly Hive (Lyson )

Lang alert: be sure to stick to Abelo/Lyson Lang frames (or check top bar length when buying) because Lang is variable depending where you are in the world. Although that info. may by now be outdated it gives you a warning

We have old Lyson boxes and Paradise boxes in the yard (not for long) and the top bars of one was 7mm longer that the top bars of the other. Not very amusing to discover the discrepancy with a frame covered in bees.

My experience is that National Hoffman side bars are handed universally, apart from the Chinese frames JBM mentioned. Frankly, the matching faces we have aren't that big a curse.

 

[Antipodes]

Only time I've seen that was with Chinese frames ,a lot of traders were selling these a few years ag - you could tell them as they were sold in tens in nice carboard boxes (I think if they bought them by the container load, the supplier would also print their trading name on the box) Many of the Langstroth frames I saw in Southern Africa had no bevels at all - so both sides were flats against flats

Why the bevel?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why the bevel?

very little surface area for the bees to propolise, although personally I don't think it's that big an issue

 

[Antipodes]

very little surface area for the bees to propolise, although personally I don't think it's that big an issue

Ok, I see. The Hoffman edge? A thing of the past it seems in Aus, but this guy is bringing it back.

https://forum.canberrabees.com/t/following-julius-hoffmans-advice-the-hoffman-edge/88

 

[Apple]

The Apimaye plastic Lang frames have nibs on them to guide the foundation.....

Hoffman nightmare have some left and some right!
Nadelik Lowen

 

[Into the lions den]

LOL...I shake my head sometimes.......the bevels are redundant detail. The British beekeeping disease...we LOVE to overcomplicate things and use something different from other people..resulting in the most fragmented bee appliance market in the world and thus the highest prices.

We dispensed with the bevels years ago...even on our BS frames (albeit they are Smiths). Difference made to operations? Zero. Also an operation less at the makers...so lower price. Difference made when getting them assembled by unskilled staff? Speeds them up.

Even dispensed with the assembly now..get them all made up and prewired. Both BS and Langstroth.

However, the bevels do seem to be somewhat beyond the comprehension of makers in other countries.....have a shed load (not literally...actually about 9000) of National frames that I had made for a customer...beautifully made from knot free lime wood..,,eyeletted...cross wired.......*and the bevels random*..........just firewood IMO....getting them remade devoid of bevels now. Sure some people could make use of them...a guy bought 400 on Saturday...40p a shot fully assembled and cross wired. Not an ad...thats just what he got them for.

 

[frankenstine]

thansk for all the input, im just used to things that can be handed actaully mattering how they are handed, so now i've just duffed them all together and they are mostly the same