Artificially swarming a double-brood hive

[scuttlefish]

Okay, real insomnia-provoked question here, but how do you AS a double brood hive?

Presumably, given the volume of forager-aged bees you'd need a new double brood for them to go into - or not? Would you still just transfer over a single brood frame? If so then you'd need another double brood for the brood frames and nurse bees, right?

Or do you split a single brood box off with a QC and give the old hive a new second brood box of fresh foundation?

 

[ultreen1]

I was thinking about this 2 days ago.
What I decided was double brood with all the brood no queen to the side of original hive.
new brood box with foundation, one frame of brood plus queen and a super on original site.
This is probably wrong but that's what I thought!

 

[scuttlefish]

new brood box with foundation, one frame of brood plus queen and a super on original site.
This is probably wrong but that's what I thought!

I thought about that at first too - but then if a double-brood worth of foragers go back to a single brood box, won't they end up swarming again in short order because of over-congestion?

 

[ultreen1]

What if you put 2 supers on with the bb?
Opportunity to get the super foundation drawn?

 

[ultreen1]

Would they fill a bb and 2 supers?

 

[Queens59]

Why not just split to 2 sep. colonies?

 

[scuttlefish]

How does that stop the colony with the queen from swarming though - you'd still have a queen, adult bees and brood in the one box so would probably have to AS that one again wouldn't you?

 

[scuttlefish]

What if you put 2 supers on with the bb?
Opportunity to get the super foundation drawn?

Good point, it'd certainly keep 'em busy.

 

[Finman]

.
Douple brood makes no difference in artificial swarm making.

You make a foundation hive and bees move to it.
It is better not to put excluder into hive during process when they settle down and draw combs.
Queen case is one, does it has queen cells or laying queen. It take few day before the queen start to lay seriously.

Then it is important to join hiveparts that you get yield.

My biggest hives need 2 boxes foundations in AS
you may put into lower box pollen frames and some honey frames brom double brood that bees can store nectar at once.
.

 

[Finman]

Okay, real insomnia-provoked question here, but how do you AS a double brood hive?

Presumably, given the volume of forager-aged bees you'd need a new double brood for them to go into - or not? Would you still just transfer over a single brood frame? If so then you'd need another double brood for the brood frames and nurse bees, right?

Or do you split a single brood box off with a QC and give the old hive a new second brood box of fresh foundation?

you do not tell how big is the hive. Double brood tells nothing about the size of colony.

- you may give douple brood foundations or 3 boxes super/medium frames. Extra frames you may take off when you see the colony size.

- you need new broob combs too and one brood size + super size is good too.
In my hives I have used even 3 foundation boxes.


*** it is better to force them to foundations that they really stop swarming fever.

= queen/queencells + frood frame + foundations.
If you have crystallized honey frames, scrab cappings and put 3 frames there.
You may feed them too couple of days with syrup.
Pollen frame is usefull too to AS.

i have merely 2 or 3 brood AS hives. NowI CAN SEE THAT IF i do not join the hive parts i do not get honey because young queens make soon 4 boxes brood. Their energy goes to brood rearing.
.

 

[Finman]

What if you put 2 supers on with the bb?
Opportunity to get the super foundation drawn?

splitting does not stop swarming and
you loose the hney yield

baaaaad idea.

 

[scuttlefish]

Thanks Finman, that's really helpful, especially the point about screwing up the yields if you don't re-combine.

you do not tell how big is the hive. Double brood tells nothing about the size of colony.

It was more of a general question, I don't have any colonies bigger than single brood this season.

 

[Poly Hive]

I do it like this.

I find a frame with an open cell and mark it.. As young as possible.

I move the queen and two brood frames plus a heafty shake of bees from enough frames to make up a good nucleus.

I do not worry about shaking frames with cells as I have marked the one I have selected, and unless I am harvesting cells it is of no account.

I leave that colony to get on with matters and check in another few days time to see that there are no other cells, and if there are they are destroyed or taken if the line is a good one.

One productive unit left in situ and one banked queen.

KISS

PH

 

[Finman]

, I don't have any colonies bigger than single brood this season.

it seems that your hives run too cold.
If you have mesh floors, close them and use 10 cm x 1 cm entrance open. Not upper holes open.

It will be good if you bye 2 poly boxes and try how bees live there.

.

 

[Finman]

.
About my AS hives

i have some promlem with my a-swarms.
One hive got 2 boxes foundations and a new queen. Now, 4 weeks later the hive is full of brood. There are 5 kg capped honey.
...............

Another 6 box hive swarmed. I got a swarm. Perhaps main swarm escaped.
Then I add one box swarm + changed to laying young queen.

Now brood in 4 boxes! Where is the honey!

 

[SixFooter]

I do it like this.

I find a frame with an open cell and mark it.. As young as possible.

I move the queen and two brood frames plus a heafty shake of bees from enough frames to make up a good nucleus.

I do not worry about shaking frames with cells as I have marked the one I have selected, and unless I am harvesting cells it is of no account.

I leave that colony to get on with matters and check in another few days time to see that there are no other cells, and if there are they are destroyed or taken if the line is a good one.

One productive unit left in situ and one banked queen.

KISS

PH

Whats to stop you getting casts?

 

[Finman]

.
Sometimes the broodpart swarms. One way is put the brood behind excluder.
Then it revieles out, does first virgin strt to kill competitors or do they piip to eacother and prepare to swarm.
.

 

[Skep]

Artificial swarm from double brood hive

Think how it works in nature and emulate it!
The queen leaves with bees of most ages so (assuming you have bees in both boxes and a good number at that, & preferably with at least one occupied super), take one of the brood chambers with frames of bees, & larvae AND the queen and put this either more than 3 metres from the originating hive or 3 miles away. (If the former, place dried grass in the entrance to make the bees re - orientate themselves).
Check the originating hive for brood and Queen cells. If queen cells found cut all but the best one out. Put queen excluder on top and the super. Close the hive up and leave alone for a week to ten days.
Back at the removed brood box; add queen excluder and second super with honey if there was one or a feeder if there wasn't. Close the hive up and inspect within 10 days.
You now have 2 single brood colonies which is likely to be enough brood space for the rest of the season.
You also have 2 colonies and you have not stopped honey collection from either.
The text books mainly deal with single brood chambers and new comb so this manipulation is not reported but I've used it for years so try it!
The end result is as nature intended; the old queen has gone elsewhere and left the capability of rasing a new one with the colony she left.
This is Skep's method.