Artificial Swarm Done

[Millet]

My first inspection was 9 days ago, the play cups where obviously NOT play cups.
This is my first full season and being one handed and in pain is as frustrating as hell which had caused me to rush with the last inspection to get it over with. Anyway I opened up today, there were brood in all stages, eggs in the brood and a half super, and also in the brood box and plenty of stores.
Five big Queen cells which where sealed on the bottom of the middle brood box frames, I destroyed three of them which had well formed larvae and kept the two biggest ones as there were no unsealed charged Queen cells to be seen.
An artificial Swarm was done three handed which was awkward to say the least.
The Q+ hive is buzzing like mad at the moment which I presume is to raise the temperature for cell building to get the queen laying as quick as possible.
I fed the Q+ hive two pints of 1 and 1 syrup.

Is there anything else I need to do or should I just leave them too it and check the Q- (Queen cell side) in 7 days to make sure no new Queen cells are made.
I will have no doubt missed something I have done in my procedure but I will answer any questions.
Thanks
Steve.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like to go into both hives 5/6 days later to check that they haven't made more QCs in the Q+ box and to make sure my chosen QC in the parent hive is still fine and to tear down emergency queen cells
The supers go on the AS so there should be no need to feed.
What sort of noise are they making.....fanning nectar or something else (are you sure the queen is there?)

 

[Millet]

I like to go into both hives 5/6 days later to check that they haven't made more QCs in the Q+ box and to make sure my chosen QC in the parent hive is still fine and to tear down emergency queen cells
The supers go on the AS so there should be no need to feed.
What sort of noise are they making.....fanning nectar or something else (are you sure the queen is there?)

Thank you Erica I will check in 5/6 days, what I have read and researched the Artificial Q+ side has no supers apart from a insulated one with feed added and the supers and stores go on the Queen cell side to keep the nurse bees fed.
The noise they are making is similar to a fanning nectar sound but a touch louder, the Queen is 100% in there or she was as she was caught and placed in the middle of her new brood box.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No...supers go on your Q+ box of foundation on the old site
The Parent box should have enough stores in the brood box to keep them going until they have foragers.....unless, of course the weather is rubbish and they can't get out

Bees drawing comb can make a crackling sound if you put your ear to the box

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No...supers go on your Q+ box of foundation on the old site
The Parent box should have enough stores in the brood box to keep them going until they have foragers.....unless, of course the weather is rubbish and they can't get out

Bees drawing comb can make a crackling sound if you put your ear to the box

 

[Millet]

No...supers go on your Q+ box of foundation on the old site
The Parent box should have enough stores in the brood box to keep them going until they have foragers.....unless, of course the weather is rubbish and they can't get out

Bees drawing comb can make a crackling sound if you put your ear to the box

Is that not defeating the object with a artificial swarm by giving them food they have gathered, a swarm will have nothing apart from what is in there stomach 3 days worth I am led to believe, the super that was originally above the Queen + holds eggs brood in all stages and honey, is that ok to stick above the new brood box.
Thank you again but a lot of advice is confusing and conflicting.

 

[Fritillary]

a swarm will have nothing apart from what is in there stomach 3 days worth I am led to believe,

Isn't the difference tho' that a swarm will have prepared to leave, and will have fed before leaving, whereas with an AS we force their departure on them and they won't have tanked up first - ?

 

[Millet]

Isn't the difference tho' that a swarm will have prepared to leave, and will have fed before leaving, whereas with an AS we force their departure on them and they won't have tanked up first - ?

True but the flying foraging bees will be full what happens to that food they are full of be it pollen or nectar.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The difference is it's an artificial swarm not a real one, it's designed to supress the swarming instinct and have as little interruption to the foraging capability as possible, thus the Q- side is left to rear a new queen and just get enough forage to survive whilst the Q- side are too busy drawing comb in a now empty brood box to give the queen room to lay and as soon as she gets underway some of the workforce go back to foraging for stores.
A 'natural' swarm has a mix of old flying bees and younger nurse and wax making bees by putting the supers back on the Q+ side you are also ensuring the 'new' colony has not just got a hive full of older fliers with less effective wax making and brood rearing organs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The difference is it's an artificial swarm not a real one, it's designed to supress the swarming instinct and have as little interruption to the foraging capability as possible, thus the Q- side is left to rear a new queen and just get enough forage to survive whilst the Q- side are too busy drawing comb in a now empty brood box to give the queen room to lay to think about swarming and as soon as she gets underway some of the workforce go back to foraging for stores.
A 'natural' swarm has a mix of old flying bees and younger nurse and wax making bees by putting the supers back on the Q+ side you are also ensuring the 'new' colony has not just got a hive full of older fliers with less effective wax making and brood rearing organs.

 

[snelgrove]

Supers go on queen right hive on old stand as mentioned. Check in a week for emergency cells in moved hive. Also check artificial swarm with old queen and don't be surprised that there will be further constructed cells to swarm.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is that not defeating the object with a artificial swarm by giving them food they have gathered, a swarm will have nothing apart from what is in there stomach 3 days worth I am led to believe, the super that was originally above the Queen + holds eggs brood in all stages and honey, is that ok to stick above the new brood box.
Thank you again but a lot of advice is confusing and conflicting.

I thought you meant a super of honey.
So your colony is on brood and a half?
If you have BIAS in the shallow then it goes with the parent colony without the queen.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Isn't the difference tho' that a swarm will have prepared to leave, and will have fed before leaving, whereas with an AS we force their departure on them and they won't have tanked up first - ?

Yes but they have ALL the foragers coming in....what do THEY do with all the nectar and pollen? .......Remember they have a super above them as well....probably.

If you separate the queen from her brood, hopefully the colony won't swarm as there is no provision for a new queen in the AS. Some people don't even have a frame of brood with the queen and just put the queen in.
If you separate the queen from the foragers the colony won't swarm as there are no scouts/flying bees to guide them.
The Pagden does the former and Modified Snelgrove the latter. To my mind it's the Snelgrove that should be more successful as it works more in tune with the bees.

 

[Millet]

I thought you meant a super of honey.
So your colony is on brood and a half?
If you have BIAS in the shallow then it goes with the parent colony without the queen.

Yes Erica it a brood and a half super, it is mainly the middle 5 frames that are full of eggs and brood, the other frames hold uncapped honey, I could go back in there today and put some frames of nectar above the old Queen if it will make it easier for them.
Thanks
Steve.

 

[Fritillary]

Erica and Millet: Sorry to confuse - I intended: only the difference between foragers swarming naturally and foragers suddenly separated by an AS - in terms of how much food they might have on board.

(eg I did a Snelgrove II (modified), leaving the foragers on the initial site with some young brood, and moved the queen, QCs and rest of brood away. In this instance, thought I should leave at least some food with the foragers for that reason. So many different versions to splitting, I get confused!!)

Where's your dog gone, Millet? I liked your dog!

 

[Millet]

Erica and Millet: Sorry to confuse - I intended: only the difference between foragers swarming naturally and foragers suddenly separated by an AS - in terms of how much food they might have on board.

(eg I did a Snelgrove II (modified), leaving the foragers on the initial site with some young brood, and moved the queen, QCs and rest of brood away. In this instance, thought I should leave at least some food with the foragers for that reason. So many different versions to splitting, I get confused!!)

Where's your dog gone, Millet? I liked your dog!

She is still here , i'll change my avatar later on just for you.

 

[Millet]

A quick update, I have been back in the hives and took three frames of uncapped honey from the old hive and put it above the brood box containing the old Queen.

 

[Millet]

This is basically what i have done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6VGkjeLycY