anyone used tongue and groove flooring to make hives before?

[Greggorio]

http://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/prod...0cm-x-17cm-21mm-e148393#description-technique

as I've said in other threads it's a right gimp to get wood to anything other than certain sizes over here. Not like the UK at all (so please no comments of... why don't you go to such and such or order it cut etc... that's not how it works over here) so this is best I have found.

Mainly as it's almost the right thickness for a Dadant (it is supposed to be 24mm whereas this is 21) which i hope is enough. It is also 17cm wide and a super on a Dadant is 17cm high I believe, whereas a broodbox is 31 and I cannot find any planks that come in at even close to 31cm that are untreated (woodworm treatment). On the upside I won't need to biscuit joint it as it will have tongue and groove.

Any carpenters out there who can think of what is not good about this, I am accepting any beekeeping criticism if it pertains to building a hive in this material.

Essentially for 22 euros i can build one broodbox and two supers and then I can use different timber for the floor and roof. So lets say the whole hive unpainted for 30-35 euros

 

[enrico]

I have used floor boarding for nationals. My main problem was that they tend to warp which meant that they bowed at the tops so they didn't fit with each other perfectly and in the end the gap was big enough to allow robbing and wasps.
I did it for cheapness but in the end you can't beat sale goods.
E

 

[enrico]

Sorry..... Duplication
E

 

[Greggorio]

I have used floor boarding for nationals. My main problem was that they tend to warp which meant that they bowed at the tops so they didn't fit with each other perfectly and in the end the gap was big enough to allow robbing and wasps.
I did it for cheapness but in the end you can't beat sale goods.
E

I was worried about that as well. I was hoping if I painted them outside and used linseed oil or similar on the inside that it would stop much movement

 

[ugcheleuce]

Essentially for 22 euros i can build one broodbox and two supers and then I can use different timber for the floor and roof. So lets say the whole hive unpainted for 30-35 euros.

Well, I've done it (search the forums for my posts), and I'm not unhappy with the result. The wood did not warp nearly as much as I was warned it would. One oddity is that I made two 5-frame supers to be placed side by side on top of a 12-frame hive, and they were identical when I made them a year ago, and now the one is 1 cm shorter than the other, even though I painted them and cared for them. But my 12-frame hive from floor planks is doing great (no warping and no excessive visible shrinkage.

Here in NL the floor planks are 18 mm thick and they are 88 mm wide (8 mm if you trim off the tongue). Some of the wood was so fresh when I bought it that the sap was still coming out, but... it's dirt cheap wood.

 

[ugcheleuce]

It is also 17cm wide and a super on a Dadant is 17cm high I believe...

Note that the width given in the advertisement may be the width without the tongue but *with* the groove, and if you don't cut off the groove, it means that the underside of your boxes will not be solid 21 mm but in effect two "railings" of about 9 mm with a 9 mm gap. This hasn't bothered me, though.

That said, I thought that the Buckfast Modified Dadant super was 16 cm, not 17 cm (and the brood box 31 cm). If you know for a fact that it's 17 cm, please let me know, so that I can update my little spreadsheet.

And: why not simply use supers only? If we assume that you're always going to have the brood box at the bottom (and only one brood box at the bottom), then you can simply use two supers instead of one brood box. It'll be about 2 cm too tall for the frames, but that's not a problem. You may wish to duct tape the two supers together, to ensure that you don't forget that it's really "one box".

What kind of a joint are you thinking about for the corners?

 

[Greggorio]

Awesome! Well I have no idea about corners. What would you recommend? That is not insanely tricky or time consuming?

I believe a Dadant is 17cm but I may be wrong. I would assume the French use an original Dadant size rather than modified in any way. They're funny like that. The frames are 16cm tall and brood frames are 30cm. unfortunately the websites that sell them don't tell you how big what theyre selling is. So I'm basing it on plans online and they all say 17cm.

I have no issue with the gap. If I'm that worried i can fill it with silicon or expanding foam and cut off excess

 

[Greggorio]

I found a rarity, a French website with information on it, and it says 17cm tall. They never use the term modified over here.

50cm by 43 by 17 (or 31 for the brood box)

now why are they selling brood boxes as 10 frame but saying the supers at the same width are 9?

 

[Greggorio]

And: why not simply use supers only? If we assume that you're always going to have the brood box at the bottom (and only one brood box at the bottom), then you can simply use two supers instead of one brood box. It'll be about 2 cm too tall for the frames, but that's not a problem. You may wish to duct tape the two supers together, to ensure that you don't forget that it's really "one box".

would that be simpler than just glueing the tongue and groove sections together (though I like the idea of not having to cut them down though)

 

[ugcheleuce]

50 cm by 43 by 17 (or 31 for the brood box).

Aha, so it's not the Modified Dadant but rather what is called the "Langstroth Illinois Medium" in the USA, the "Langstroth 2/3" in Germany, and the "Langstroth Manley" in the UK. Still, running two supers instead of one brood box will give you only 3-4 cm of extra space at the bottom, and that's not so bad. If worst comes to worst, the bees will build extra comb at the bottom (more likely drone comb), which you can easily remove with your hive tool if you really want to.

Now why are they selling brood boxes as 10 frame, but saying the supers at the same width are 9?

The 10 and 9 are not confusing (the 10-frame possibly has frame spacing of 35 mm and the 9-frame has frame spacing of 38 mm, because brood cells have a fixed depth but honey cells can be deeper).

What is confusing is that they're calling the 430 mm hive a "10-frame", which makes no sense to me, unless the hive is made from 35 mm thick wood (!!). A 430 mm box would be a perfect 11-framer (at 35 mm frame spacing) and a near-perfect 10-framer (at 38 mm frame spacing), if the walls are 18 mm thick. However, you say that the walls are meant to be 24 mm thick, which would mean a 10-frame brood box is 410 mm wide.

If you choose to go with Dadant or Langstroth, then I suggest you find a preferred supplier and measure their hives, so that you can make your own hive parts of the same dimensions (or slightly smaller). Remember, a hand-made hive from non-premium wood is likely to warp/shrink/expand slightly, and if you made the hive exactly the same size as a shop box, certain shop-bought parts (e.g. telescoping roof) will no longer fit your hive.

Samuel

 

[ugcheleuce]

[Wouldn't it be simpler to] just glue the tongue and groove sections together (though I like the idea of not having to cut them down though)?

Yes, of course, I forgot for a moment that we're talking about tongue and groove planks. If you want to make a single brood box with no rip sawing required, you can simply make one that's 34 cm tall instead of the usual 31 cm tall (you may still need to do some rip sawing when you make the lug rests, but those don't have to be cut in perfectly straight lines).

 

[Greggorio]

P



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[Islandbees]

Hi greggorio. Sorry this is a bit of a late reply but thought I'd respond anyway. I know the trouble with finding timber in France. My parents live there and trying to find anything similar to what we consider standard sizes here is near impossible. I have used t&g flooring to make some roofs. The timber had been stored for over a year and was dry, but had slightly bowed. I found clamping the joints tight whilst gluing and screwing straightened the ends out, middle still had slight bow. I know here in UK most suppliers won't sell t&g flooring as a 'finished' product as the timber is grown so quick and dried they cannot guarantee the boards won't shrink and twist.
I'd still use it again though, good cheap option just as long as your not too precious about aesthetics.

 

[peterbees]

I made my first National hives nearly 40 years ago from reclaimed T and G floor boards, still using them.

 

[madasafish]

I made my first National hives nearly 40 years ago from reclaimed T and G floor boards, still using them.

Use T&G for hive floors- I have a job lot from an elderly friend who is clearing out hi workshop..

Made my first TBH from them - still going strong.

I always glue the joins with PU glue which expands to fill any gaps (my reclaimed T&G has sections of missing T ..

 

[ugcheleuce]

I made my first National hives nearly 40 years ago from reclaimed T and G floor boards, still using them.

Yes, but floor boards from 40 years ago were of a much better quality, surely. In addition, some floor boards are meant to carry weight, whereas others are really just meant to add spring between a concrete floor and the carpet that covers it.

 

[madasafish]

Yes, but floor boards from 40 years ago were of a much better quality, surely..

Some of our house floorboards in the original part of the house are c 190 years old, 12 feet long, solid oak and weigh a lot...