Another swarmy season??

[thedozzer]

the dozzer...I wonder, can you get new mated queens early in the season over there? Perhaps they are an option to reduce the swarming impulse?

Hi Antipodes, as Dani (Erichalfbee) points out they are normally imports, you can get overwintered queens but they seem to be a lot more expensive!! and we wanted to try GM queens this year.

we know as its part of their nature to want to swarm, just want to understand some of the triggers a bit more so we feel a tiny bit more in control.

 

[beeno]

Isn't it generally accepted that queens do not decide when to to swarm? It is the worker bees that make the decision, they stop feeding the queen in preparation for her to be able to fly, they prepare swarm cells & have the queen to lay those cells; and they prepare drone cells so drones can mate a new virgin queen. Workers send out scouts looking for a new home, and foraging is reduced, and they prevent the old queen from destroying the new swarm cells.

Those preparations are started a couple of weeks in advance of the actual swarming. Although bees are “programmed” to swarm, they generally do so only when conditions in the brood box/hive no longer meet their needs. There are and always will be exceptions.

It is generally accepted that they swarm when a flow has been on for some time. At which time the hive is full of bees and stores.

 

[Murox]

It is generally accepted that they swarm when a flow has been on for some time. At which time the hive is full of bees and stores.

So you are saying that conditions in the brood box/hive no longer meet their needs ?

 

[MerryBee]

We had about a week of record high temperatures in late February 2019. In my neck of the woods it reached 19C on 25th February. (Accuweather)
My colonies were much larger than previous years when I started regular inspections. I keep a record of the number of frames of brood so I have an objective comparison. As a result swarming preparations were earlier, and that caught a lot of people out.

 

[mbc]

A sudden change from rain to blistering hot will have many colonies previously not considering swarming respond too late to the high temperature in terms of keeping the nest right and this can initiate a spate of queen cell building leading to a lot of unexpected swarming.
Last year many swarms seemed ill prepared and ended up settling in inappropriate places leading me to believe everything was done in a rush. A more typical swarming hive will have had scout bees exploring the local cavities weeks in advance.

 

[Beefriendly]

It is generally accepted that they swarm when a flow has been on for some time. At which time the hive is full of bees and stores.

That's a rather simplistic view. There are several trigger points that lead to bees swarming at any point in the season. In my view genetics and space regulation are the main issues with the bees I've kept.
My local bees were bi-annual swarmers, never filled more than 5/6 frames of brood had plenty of space but were off twice a year, once mid spring and again late summer/early autumn.
Now I use bees that have been bred to be low swarmers and find space management seems to be the trigger for these strains. I find it's a fine balance between having too many brood boxes and supers and the requisite amount to get optimum honey and no swarming. I don't always get it right.

 

[Murox]

That's a rather simplistic view. There are several trigger points that lead to bees swarming at any point in the season. In my view genetics and space regulation are the main issues with the bees I've kept.
My local bees were bi-annual swarmers, never filled more than 5/6 frames of brood had plenty of space but were off twice a year, once mid spring and again late summer/early autumn.
Now I use bees that have been bred to be low swarmers and find space management seems to be the trigger for these strains. I find it's a fine balance between having too many brood boxes and supers and the requisite amount to get optimum honey and no swarming. I don't always get it right.

I haven't any foundation for this thought, but is there any possible correlation between the availability of certain pollens and the “clockwork” like issuing of some swarms ? Anyone ? I might be barking of course !

 

[mbc]

I haven't any foundation for this thought, but is there any possible correlation between the availability of certain pollens and the “clockwork” like issuing of some swarms ? Anyone ? I might be barking of course !

Not sure about pollen but wet and then hot conditions cause brambles to produce a deluge of nectar that can push bees to swarm

 

[Murox]

Yes any sudden deluge of nectar can result in space issues; I was wondering more about the various protein levels etc in pollens which may prompt/encourage particular behaviour(s).

 

[beeno]

So you are saying that conditions in the brood box/hive no longer meet their needs ?

Well, I would not say that conditions in the brood box or hive no longer met their needs in my case. Rather that the conditions were optimum for swarming. I usually remove capped stores ASAP as I consider this part of swarm preventative measures and failed to do so on this occasion.
Most swarms issue when a strong flow has been on for a few weeks plenty of graphs around to prove the point.

 

[Beefriendly]

I was wondering more about the various protein levels etc in pollens which may prompt/encourage particular behaviour(s).

Never heard of pollen causing swarming before.
I think you may be on your own with that theory.

 

[beeno]

That's a rather simplistic view. There are several trigger points that lead to bees swarming at any point in the season. In my view genetics and space regulation are the main issues with the bees I've kept.
My local bees were bi-annual swarmers, never filled more than 5/6 frames of brood had plenty of space but were off twice a year, once mid spring and again late summer/early autumn.
Now I use bees that have been bred to be low swarmers and find space management seems to be the trigger for these strains. I find it's a fine balance between having too many brood boxes and supers and the requisite amount to get optimum honey and no swarming. I don't always get it right.

I agree genetics is an important part. However, despite the fact that all my bees are from collected swarms I have yet to come across the swarmy bee genetics strain thank goodness. I have however witnessed the management practices of beekeepers who claim to have swarmy bees and note that they fail to take advise.

 

[mbc]

Never heard of pollen causing swarming before.
I think you may be on your own with that theory.

Dandelion pollen triggers nest expansion = eventual swarming
I suppose any good nutritional pollen in the spring triggers nest expansion if there's also a bit of nectar about.

 

[Beefriendly]

Yes, but the pollen is not the actual cause of the swarming.

 

[Beefriendly]

I'm not sure what your definition of swarmy genetics would be. In my neck of the woods the locals are annual to bi-annual swarmers regardless of any measures taken. These girl's I consider to have swarmy genetics. Space/age of queen/nectar flows etc seem to have no bearing. They just used to go every season. Even defeated any Pagden measures as they still swarmed.

 

[Murox]

Dandelion pollen triggers nest expansion = eventual swarming
I suppose any good nutritional pollen in the spring triggers nest expansion if there's also a bit of nectar about.

Yes nest expansion - The health and productivity of the queen are important, and the queen relies upon constant care and feeding by young workers - so the qualities (and quantities) of pollen are important as is nectar since ultimately nutrition (and time of year) influences egg laying. As BF points out the pollen is not the actual cause of the swarming. I do wonder though what prompts the "clockwork" type of swarming BF noted.

 

[Beefriendly]

. I do wonder though what prompts the "clockwork" type of swarming BF noted.

In my local mongrels I'm sure it's genetic. But not clockwork, they can swarm at at any point, often with no apparent reason. Earliest recorded was 2nd of March.
Synchronous swarming does occur but it's usually when we have had a week or two of bad weather followed by a hot sunny day.

 

[Popparand]

In my local mongrels I'm sure it's genetic. But not clockwork, they can swarm at at any point, often with no apparent reason. Earliest recorded was 2nd of March.
Synchronous swarming does occur but it's usually when we have had a week or two of bad weather followed by a hot sunny day.

What do you expect? They're wimmin. Totally unpredictable!

 

[Popparand]

Weather forecasts..............Forget them.

If we had based what we did offshore on the very expensive forecasts we had 4 times a day it would have been difficult to say the least. They were wrong a good 60% of the time.

My tip?

Next time at the seaside pick up a bit of kelp.

Red sky at night and the morning is reasonably accurate. Apart from that, it's in the lap of the weather clerk.

PH

Good forage offshore? Just askin'