another swarm question

[whoosling]

So it's happened, I've lost my first ever swarm, no chance of getting them back to high to reach. What do I do with the swarmed hive now to make sure there are no cast swarms?

 

[MartinL]

Never Too high!

 

[MartinL]

Especially in Somerset!

 

[Cazza]

So it's happened, I've lost my first ever swarm, no chance of getting them back to high to reach. What do I do with the swarmed hive now to make sure there are no cast swarms?

Go through it and choose your best open queen cell. Remove the rest. Check again in 4-5 days time.

 

[oliver90owner]

no chance of getting them back to high to reach

Not thought of a bait hive? How high?

 

[TOBY-3652]

So it's happened, I've lost my first ever swarm, no chance of getting them back to high to reach. What do I do with the swarmed hive now to make sure there are no cast swarms?

never too high{chainsaw]

 

[whoosling]

no chance of getting them back to high to reach

Not thought of a bait hive? How high?

about 25 feet on the end of a thin fir branch , very inaccessable through masses of bramble and god only knows what lurks under that, I put out my nuc box the only thing I have but does a bait box have to be placed high up?

 

[oliver90owner]

Any good sized swarm is not going to be attracted to a nuc box.

 

[REDWOOD]

you might already have a virgin queen in the hive, release all queens from cells (if any) and destroy or utilise the others

 

[whoosling]

Any good sized swarm is not going to be attracted to a nuc box.

Have found another good sized box to put out.Thanks for all the answers.

 

[Fatbee]

I find the thinking around cast swarms a little mixed so would welcome views and experiences. A bit of context first. I had a hive swarm in front of my eyes as I was doing A/S on others (obviously couldn't wait!) and like the earlier post it was high up on a branch which I managed to lop down and in to a box but by no means easy. However, despite the centre of the ball going in to a box below most erupted up and a lot took off back to the original hive. With bees going everywhere I assumed that the swarmed box would fill up as they settled. However, on looking today I found a small clump of dead bees with HM dead as well so most obviously deserted her and the cooler night last night they didn't have enough numbers. It was too cold to investigate the original colony but from peeking in there was stacks of bees in there and strangely a lot heavier when hefted (do swarmed up bees return the honey they gorge if the swarm fails?). So, as far as casts goes some questions:
- if a swarm fails and the swarming queen is no longer present; are they more likely to take off with a hatched virgin? Do they still have the swarming fever?
- is cast dependent upon the number of bees left after the prime swarm? So, the bigger the colony the more likely?
- do you get cast swarms on the early swarms that go or is it more common later in the year?
- if weather prevents virgins taking a cast will the pressure ease and she's more likely to settle down - kill any sisters - and then go on a mating flight when the weather improves?

A lot of questions with probably no known answers but would welcome any views! The weather is beating me in getting in a reducing the number of queen cells in the hive so I worry I may be open to losing a cast in this situation.

 

[Heather]

Out of reach..

String with fishing lead weight on. Lob high up to drop over nearby branch, and allow the weight to drop back down. Replace lead weight with frame of brood , pull back up the tree to within 6'. They will move across to brood. When covered, lower to ground..

 

[YorkshireBees]

...

- if a swarm fails and the swarming queen is no longer present; are they more likely to take off with a hatched virgin? Do they still have the swarming fever?
If the original reason for swarming was over crowding, then YES they will still want to swarm with the first virgin queen to hatch!

- is cast dependent upon the number of bees left after the prime swarm? So, the bigger the colony the more likely?
See above answer

- do you get cast swarms on the early swarms that go or is it more common later in the year?
Personally I would say that if there is a prime swarm then there could be cast swarm(s) regardless of the time of year.

- if weather prevents virgins taking a cast will the pressure ease and she's more likely to settle down - kill any sisters - and then go on a mating flight when the weather improves?
Not sure that this will be the case, it's also not always true that swarms will not come out of the hive in bad weather! I had a swarm hanging on the side of the hive that it came from on a cool and damp day the other year!

The best advice is to reduce the queen cells in the colony to one good one (imho) and if you want to have a backup, make a nuc (if you have the equipment) from another good queencell / frames of bees.
Making a nuc will give you 2 chances at getting a new mated queen and will also reduce the number of bees in the original colony.

 

[Fatbee]

Thanks Yorkshire bee. Problem I have is that it was too cool to get in the hive today to take down multiple cells and leave one - nothing was flying - and the next few days look the same. 10 degrees and strong wind. I think I'm just going to have to hope that the weather holds them long enough that they have lost the urge now original queen no longer with them - not withstanding your comment about they will go when cooler. Then when the virgins hatch they fight rather than fly!

They have plenty of room (double brood, filling one and half supers with another empty one on top) they are just swarmy bees - think they are of Carnolian origin. I need to try and re-queen at some point later in season when my other less swarmy bees have raised some new queens. They were like it last year trouble is they were the most productive! Plus they are the grumpiest which is always the case!

 

[Terry G]

Out of reach..

String with fishing lead weight on. Lob high up to drop over nearby branch, and allow the weight to drop back down. Replace lead weight with frame of brood , pull back up the tree to within 6'. They will move across to brood. When covered, lower to ground..

Nice one! Have you ever tried it?
Probably also a good idea to attach a trailing string to the frame so rather than relying on gravity you can pull it back down if it gets snagged.

 

[dn170221]

Out of reach..

String with fishing lead weight on. Lob high up to drop over nearby branch, and allow the weight to drop back down. Replace lead weight with frame of brood , pull back up the tree to within 6'. They will move across to brood. When covered, lower to ground..

I think I would want a hard hat before I tried that!

But does sound clever!!

 

[whoosling]

Nice one! Have you ever tried it?
Probably also a good idea to attach a trailing string to the frame so rather than relying on gravity you can pull it back down if it gets snagged.

great idea

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

brood frame

Out of reach..

String with fishing lead weight on. Lob high up to drop over nearby branch, and allow the weight to drop back down. Replace lead weight with frame of brood , pull back up the tree to within 6'. They will move across to brood. When covered, lower to ground..

What a cracking idea, I'll try it next time mine swarm out into the larch tree in the garden, that's if I can throw the weight that far,
better go and buy a catapult tomorrow!

thanks for the idea Heather
Dave W

 

[YorkshireBees]

Thanks Yorkshire bee. Problem I have is that it was too cool to get in the hive today to take down multiple cells and leave one - nothing was flying - and the next few days look the same. 10 degrees and strong wind. I think I'm just going to have to hope that the weather holds them long enough that they have lost the urge now original queen no longer with them - not withstanding your comment about they will go when cooler. Then when the virgins hatch they fight rather than fly!

They have plenty of room (double brood, filling one and half supers with another empty one on top) they are just swarmy bees - think they are of Carnolian origin. I need to try and re-queen at some point later in season when my other less swarmy bees have raised some new queens. They were like it last year trouble is they were the most productive! Plus they are the grumpiest which is always the case!

If it was me I would pick the least windiest time and go in anyway rather than lose a cast swarm or multiple.
The Bees won't like it but don't worry about the brood as it is a lot more resilient than most people realise.
There are times, cold / windy and even rain when as a beekeeper you just have to do an inspection.
That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Tomo]

Just received my copy of "The Essex Beekeeper," which, on the front cover has a picture of the ideal solution for you! It is an upside down plastic water container with base removed (the type used for office water coolers), which is attached to a long telescopic pole (the end of the pole should fit through the bottle neck to make a solid fit), the type used by radio hams. Extend under the swarm, a good shake and hey presto! Good luck