An offer too good to refuse

[B+.]

One of my contacts in the Netherlands has been kind enough to offer me a 2013 queen for use as a drone mother next year.
This is a rather special queen (a daughter of 6-172-31-2011 that I tried to get pipettes of semen from in the spring) so I want to maximise her chances of acceptance and success. Does anyone have any advice on maintenance of older queens?

 

[sipa]

Sorry that was wrong for a drone mother

 

[B+.]

Keep her in a small colony / nuc

Yes. I thought of that but, given that her purpose is to produce a lot of mature drones for II next year, I will want her in a full colony (perhaps with assistance from support colonies).
I can make a 10 frame hive by taking frames of brood from other colonies. This will support her over winter (and make sure the robbers/wasps can't decimate the nuc). I'm trying to avoid supercedure too either now or in the spring

 

[sipa]

A point to consider, I understand that if conditions are optimal the percentage of drones produced flatlines at a colony population of around 12,000.

The colony should be well fed too.

 

[B+.]

the percentage of drones produced flatlines at a colony population of around 12,000.

I'm planning to take frames of drones to be supported by other colonies above a queen excluder (not sure if I have to wait until they're sealed brood or if I can get away with lavae...I suspect the nurse colony would cannibalize the eggs). That would reduce the strain on the colony.

I'm planning to give them frames of sealed stores to over-winter and add frames of worker brood in the spring

 

[sipa]

So, you would need to cage those frames of drone brood removed to other colonies in order to stop the populations mixing ?

 

[Hawklord]

Would keeping her in a 2 queen system work, ie Horsley board? You could transfer frames of capped worker brood to the drone layer and the swap them again when empty. If using artificial insemination, can you raise queens through winter?

 

[B+.]

So, you would need to cage those frames of drone brood removed to other colonies in order to stop the populations mixing ?

I wasn't planning to. If I transfer frames of sealed brood above a queen excluder, the support colony can take care of them until mature.

 

[B+.]

Would keeping her in a 2 queen system work, ie Horsley board? You could transfer frames of capped worker brood to the drone layer and the swap them again when empty. If using artificial insemination, can you raise queens through winter?

Wouldn't the age disparity mean they'd choose one and kill the other? Other than that, I like the idea of supporting the drone mother.
I'm not planning to do the II until next year. It would take too long to get her accepted and rear drones to maturity, then get inseminated queens accepted.

 

[Millet]

I thought this was a wind up when i first read the original post.. @ a certain member lol.. i was obviously wrong i think..? .

 

[Hawklord]

Wouldn't the age disparity mean they'd choose one and kill the other? Other than that, I like the idea of supporting the drone mother.
I'm not planning to do the II until next year. It would take too long to get her accepted and rear drones to maturity, then get inseminated queens accepted.

I don't think there would be a problem with age as I use a Horsley to get queen cells capped and then take 2 nucs off the top and leave a 3rd to hatch and get mated leaving an older queen in the lower box. If you could keep the old queen supplied with capped brood the bees would think she was working ok.

 

[beebreeder]

This subject has been talked about at great length in II circles, one of the other issues is the fact that your II drones will have not flown and there is a line of thought that drones need to fly as the action of flying actually matures the version muscles, some say that drones that have not flown so not evert properly, others warn that they will also be desperate to defecate and if not allowed to fly they will deficate and contaminate any semen from full eversion

 

[Thymallus]

One of my contacts in the Netherlands has been kind enough to offer me a 2013 queen for use as a drone mother next year.
This is a rather special queen (a daughter of 6-172-31-2011 that I tried to get pipettes of semen from in the spring) so I want to maximise her chances of acceptance and success. Does anyone have any advice on maintenance of older queens?

Can you not still get some of her current drones semen?

 

[B+.]

Can you not still get some of her current drones semen?

She is in the Netherlands at the moment and my contact doesn't have the II equipment to take the semen samples. He needs the space in his apiary for other queens so he has offered to send her to me on monday as he knows I wanted to incorporate her genes in my line.
I would not normally be introducing a queen of this age to a new colony so this is really my concern. I recognise that it is risky but if I can get her through the winter I am sure that I can augment her colony with frames of sealed worker brood from other colonies if necessary.

 

[B+.]

some say that drones that have not flown so not evert properly, others warn that they will also be desperate to defecate and if not allowed to fly they will deficate and contaminate any semen from full eversion

Yes. Both of these concerns are valid.
One of the ways of avoiding the contamination issue is to allow the drones to fly in a flight cage before collecting the semen sample (as described here http://www.theabk.com.au/article/queen-insemination-germany). However, I agree that free flight offers other advantages (one of which you described). The problem with free flight is that you lose a lot of the drones because they will mate with stray virgins before you collect them for II so the attrition rate is quite high. You also have to mark them with a Posca pen (as you would normally do for a queen) for identification purposes but they will drift to other colonies too. I would still have to keep them above the queen excluder until marked.
I am more concerned about the maintenance of the queen at the moment though.

 

[nantmoel]

One of my contacts in the Netherlands has been kind enough to offer me a 2013 queen for use as a drone mother next year.
This is a rather special queen (a daughter of 6-172-31-2011 that I tried to get pipettes of semen from in the spring) so I want to maximise her chances of acceptance and success. Does anyone have any advice on maintenance of older queens?

Having returned to bee keeping after a long break I find it fascinating how the pedigree of the 'Buckfast' lines of bees has been carefully kept and documented on: http://perso.fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/elver/pedgr/ I notice on there that 'Breeder Queens' are quite old in most cases. Your prize Queen will only be 3 years old next season, although I can't offer an experience bee keeper and breeder like yourself any advice, but I wish you all the success in over wintering her and using her next year. You must chuffed to bits having been given her. Please keep us posted.

 

[B+.]

Your prize Queen will only be 3 years old next season

Thanks nantmoel. I'm probably just stressing unnecessarily. I think I have it well planned but you can always learn.....and the bees are quick to point out the error of our ways ;-)
I am "over the moon" with this queen...which is why I really don't want to lose her.

 

[Obee1]

Thanks nantmoel. I'm probably just stressing unnecessarily. I think I have it well planned but you can always learn.....and the bees are quick to point out the error of our ways ;-)
I am "over the moon" with this queen...which is why I really don't want to lose her.

First things first. You really need to go collect her in person. Nice little trip to Germany..... You could even take mrs B+ and have a romantic getaway

 

[B+.]

This is a rather special queen (a daughter of 6-172-31-2011 that I tried to get pipettes of semen from in the spring)

I was asked about the pedigree of the queen and why I think she is so special:

Since the queen is to be used as a drone mother it isn't her pedigree but her mothers that is important. I have produced a screen dump of the relevant information from BeeBreed here https://www.dropbox.com/s/56n6xhfsmpe83p3/Screenshot 2015-08-07 12.03.28.png?dl=0

It goes without saying that all of her breeding values are well over the 5-year rolling average (Honey yield 116%, docility 123%, stability on the comb 119%, swarm resistence 112%, chalkbrood 103%) but it is her varroa index (141%) that I am particularly interested in. The tests I have done on my 2014 queens indicate a hygiene rating of about 90% so incorporating the genes of this queen should produce a much improved line.

 

[B+.]

First things first. You really need to go collect her in person. Nice little trip to Germany..... You could even take mrs B+ and have a romantic getaway

I've promised Prof Brascamp that I'll visit the Vlieland mating station first Obee1 so Germany will have to wait.