Ambrosia vs sugar syrup

[cinnamon]

This weekend I was at a farmers market and bought several jars of honey, as my hive is not producing any. As I was talking to the seller/beekeeper about bees etc, she was adamant that Ambrosia is better for bees than sugar syrup and she said since she started using Ambrosia her winter losses are only about at 10%! She was also saying that white cane sugar is poison and it feeds cancer in humans and it cannot be good for the bees, etc.
This part of the claim sounded like total BS to me. My lovely husband, who's a doctor told her in a polite way that there is NO evidence that white refined sugar causes cancer, as cancer cells just like any other cell feed on sugar for their energy. She was saying the opposite, showing internet as her source of information. Here I am thinking... yea everything on the internet is factual. /sigh... Anyway... I digress...
But the point I'm trying to make is if she believes refined sugar is practically poison, would I take her word on Ambrosia to be any better for bees than sugar syrup? Are there any scientific studies (not funded by the makers of these products) that shows one is better than the other? My internet search hasn't produced any reliable information.
Are there any seasoned beekeepers who tried both and seen a difference?

 

[PaulCarroll]

Well if she is correct then many eminent and successful beekeepers over the years are culpable of bee homicide. I have not used Ambrosia, but have always felt such products to emanate and built upon the basic model of sugar syrup feed, but making it quicker and easier to pour straight from an already mixed container, straight to the hive. Less time, less mess. I am sure the product is equally as good, but certainly their marketing does not support the claims being made by this woman. If it were vaguely true you can bet your bottom dollar it would be broadcast loudly by these companies in their advertising. I will continue to kill my bees with Tate & Lyle currently 88p per 2 kilo bag at Morrisons. I will await the visit from the Bee Police Homicide unit!!


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[enrico]

Used ambrosia once. Easy, doesn't go mouldy, bees like it, but always use sugar as it is cheaper!
E

 

[maddydog]

This weekend I was at a farmers market and bought several jars of honey, as my hive is not producing any.

She has got honey and you haven't!

Seriously, millions of litres of sugar syrup must have gone through bee colonies by now without any noticeable problems. If she treats her colonies for Varroa and makes sure they have sufficient stores for the winter then she should only see 10% losses

 

[cinnamon]

That's because it hasn't even been a month since I got my nuc. I don't expect any harvest this year. Just hoping to survive this colony through winter, thus the question re Ambrosia vs sugar syrup/fondant. It seems there isn't a good enough evidence to go for one or the other. I'll go with whichever is more accessible at the time.

She has got honey and you haven't!

 

[Karsal]

Cost of Ambrosia can be a factor depending on how many colonies you have. A little thymol in the syrup stops mould and may be beneficial to bees.

 

[drex]

For last three winters, on white sugar, plus their own stores my losses have been 0%. That includes taking 5-6 frame nucs through winter ( they did need fondant for the last month or two) . My bees must thrive on poison.

 

[cinnamon]

My bees must thrive on poison.

Love it!

Thanks everyone.

I must say in my short 40+ years on this earth, among other groups that I've been in, I find beekeepers to be the most opinionated - which is not a bad thing necessarily, but sadly some of them not based on science or facts but merely a heresy that they've read it on the internet.

I'll look out for any sales of fondant or ambrosia but I think whatever is the cheapest (read: sugar) - as long as, no harm to the colony - wins my custom.

 

[cinnamon]

Cost of Ambrosia can be a factor depending on how many colonies you have. A little thymol in the syrup stops mould and may be beneficial to bees.

Thanks! I'll look up thymol and see how it's used.

 

[drex]

It's in the sticky posts section
https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6513

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This weekend I was at a farmers market and bought several jars of honey, as my hive is not producing any. As I was talking to the seller/beekeeper about bees etc, she was adamant that Ambrosia is better for bees than sugar syrup and she said since she started using Ambrosia her winter losses are only about at 10%! She was also saying that white cane sugar is poison and it feeds cancer in humans and it cannot be good for the bees, etc.
This part of the claim sounded like total BS to me. My lovely husband, who's a doctor told her in a polite way that there is NO evidence that white refined sugar causes cancer, as cancer cells just like any other cell feed on sugar for their energy. She was saying the opposite, showing internet as her source of information. Here I am thinking... yea everything on the internet is factual. /sigh... Anyway... I digress...
But the point I'm trying to make is if she believes refined sugar is practically poison, would I take her word on Ambrosia to be any better for bees than sugar syrup? Are there any scientific studies (not funded by the makers of these products) that shows one is better than the other? My internet search hasn't produced any reliable information.
Are there any seasoned beekeepers who tried both and seen a difference?

You were right - she was talking absolute horsesh!t.
I use invert syrup (ambrosia is just a brand) it's no better than sugar syrup and no worse - but for me just easier than mixing hundredweights of sugar, easier for bees to assimilate and you can feed them a lot later in the year with no worries of dysentry and the like.
I've used both - no difference in bee health, winter mortality or spring buildup. You pays your money, you takes the choice.
The woman is just another of the many cuckoos we encounter in our journey as beekeepers.

 

[enrico]

I have a whole bottle of 'hive clean' that I have never used. I am sure I read somewhere that you can add that to syrup. Anyone know if that is true and in what quantity
Thanks
E

 

[Swarm]

It is easier for the bees to assimilate so I suppose you could argue that makes it better for them.

 

[Poly Hive]

I know someone who sells it and swears it avoids robbing.

Any thoughts on that claim?

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Any thoughts on that claim?

Easy enough to test that... in a time of dearth splosh it around the apiary, down the sides of hives, over roofs, etc, if it does not set off robbing...the claim is true.

 

[Beefriendly]

It is easier for the bees to assimilate so I suppose you could argue that makes it better for them.

Its closer to how they would process unrefined nectar (or sugar solution) by adding enzymes themselves and splitting the double-sugars (sucrose) into mono sugars, glucose and fructose etc. You could claim it's doing the bees out of a job they should be doing.
As others have said both work, question of cost and time and probably belief!
Currently I do sugar as it's definitely cheaper but more labour intensive...there's a reason "Ambrosia" is sold by weight.

 

[Millet]

Does Ambrosia not contain sugar ..?.. i suspect it does so there for that is poisonous to bees also..

 

[Beefriendly]

Yeah, but sugars come in at least two forms,,,can be 2 sugars stuck together like sucrose/cane sugar. Invert is single sugar molecules like glucose/.fructose. All classed as sugars but different. Bees take the 2 sugars stuck together and change them into 2 single sugars not stuck together....called invert.

 

[Herbalist]

She is differentiating between "Ambrosia" and cane sugar. Labeling sugar as "poison" is emotive and arguably wrong. Sugar is not one compound. Sugars are a whole family of chemical compounds. The bulk of nectar is sucrose. This sugar is a disacarrhide (compound of glucose and fructose). Every cell in the human body can use glucose as a fuel. Some cells (in the eyes and brain) cannot run on anything else. Other dietary sugars (Galactose, Fructose, Maltose etc) are converted by the body into glucose.
To call sugar a "poison" is absurd. Too much refined sugar for humans can however overwhelm the pancreas leading to obesity and type 2 diabetes.
Bee biochemistry is not identical to ours (surprise surprise). We can also use fats as a storage mechanism. Bees can thrive quite well on a sugar diet that would make us ill. I think that this lady is projecting human dietary needs onto bees. This is a serious error of logic. I use cane sugar to feed my bees. I have no problems with it, and - more importantly - neither do my bees.
What is the chemical make-up of Ambrosia anyway? (I suspect that it is a mixture of sugars).

 

[Erichalfbee]

I use Invert.
I'm often hanging around to see if the balsam does anything (it never seems to ) so feeding is late. Invert goes down well later in the year and doesn't seem to go off if the bees don't cap it. I can't be bothered making gallons of syrup.

Regarding the sugar and cancer theory........I have a neighbour who seems to be in remission from prostate cancer after surgery and placement of radioactive seeds. He has another neighbour (apart from me, that is) who is some sort of naturopath/homeopath/horsepoopath.
On her advice he is on some sort of really proscriptive diet and is clearly very miserable on it. This diet excludes ALL sugar as she shares the theory that refined sugar causes and exacerbates cancer. I have tried to simplify a description of the Krebs Cycle for him but he is adamant that his dietary self scourging is keeping him alive. Who am I to argue further? I spotted her in a local deli tucking into a brownie and ice cream.....perhaps it was sugar-free?