Already swarmed?

[AndreaW]

Hi folks,
Dilemma here on current topic of swarms.

With the weather and lots of family illnesses - hadn't been able to get back to my hive as quickly as I would have liked.

Opened it up on Monday at last and found 6 or so queen cells and paniced. I know I shouldn't have but tore most of them down - most were capped and contained larvae. Had to close up as the bees were getting tetchy and the rain was about to come down again.

Opened up again on Tuesday (yesterday) as hadn't managed to work out if queen was still there and more panic! Anyway could not see the queen and I am hopeless at finding eggs, saw larvae but that won't mean she was there recently. I have 3 sealed queen cells left and have not touched these.

Questions: Have they already swarmed - I had a clipped queen - and returned to hive as queen was lost. Are they now just waiting to swarm again when a virgin hatches?

Could my queen still be there, will go and look again when I can, and just the weather has delayed swarming - is this likely with capped queen cells?

What would be best to do now - talk is always of finding uncapped cells but I have only capped cells at the moment.

Please be gentle - no comments about go and read some books - I keep doing that but can't find the answer in the books I'm reading and need a bit of moral support

 

[oliver90owner]

Your clipped queen could still be there, although more likely 'brown bread'. A few leave and are able to get back in the hive and a few will never actually leave with the initial swarm.

With multiple swarm cells they will likely go when the first emerges. I suggest you split (for safety or increase). If the queen is marked (eminently sensible move with clipped queens), you should relatively easily locate her, if she is still there.

 

[AndreaW]

Your clipped queen could still be there, although more likely 'brown bread'. A few leave and are able to get back in the hive and a few will never actually leave with the initial swarm.

With multiple swarm cells they will likely go when the first emerges. I suggest you split (for safety or increase). If the queen is marked (eminently sensible move with clipped queens), you should relatively easily locate her, if she is still there.

Do I effectively carry out a split in the same way as an AS - my queen is marked so if I cannot find her, should I make sure I leave a capped queen cell in each hive when I split? Will be actively trying to read up again on ASs and splits tonight
Thank you

 

[susbees]

Do I effectively carry out a split in the same way as an AS - my queen is marked so if I cannot find her, should I make sure I leave a capped queen cell in each hive when I split? Will be actively trying to read up again on ASs and splits tonight
Thank you

Capped QC in each hive - yep. Make sure it's just the one. Gut instinct is old queen gone. I've had two like this this week and split both. One with a caste swarm hanging off the hive and the prime with VQ (clipped Q lost) in the out apiary's garage wall . Hope yours is less hassle!

 

[Norvic_chris]

One with a caste swarm hanging off the hive...

Thanks for excellent advice - quick question, any ideas on the best way of getting a fair-sized cast off the bottom of a hive without disturbing the hive? Mine is squeezed between the mesh of the OMF and the solid surface of the hive stand -- a small gap of about 4cm (keeping out of the rain I suppose!). I don't want to mess with the hive as it should contain a freshly emerged virgin Q, as part of an artificial swarm, and most advice says don't disturb for around 3 weeks! Dilemma!!

All advice welcome.

 

[oliver90owner]

I don't want to mess with the hive as it should contain a freshly emerged virgin Q,

No chance of not disturbing the hive. Minimal disturbance is certain.

Very simple. Gently move hive onto another floor. Deal with the cast - if you are sure it is actually a cast swarm. Replace hive to original location. Job done. Appears to me to be the only sensible way of going about it.

Just pick your time - not early in the day so as to disturb any possible mating flight of the virgin in the hive.

 

[susbees]

Block in the upstairs occupants with foam. Securely...
In the morning lift hive off stand onto secure blocks to either side...eg. two stable piles breeze blocks or similar.
Scrape small cardboard box along base of OMF. Spray lightly with water spray. Tap on ground and close.
Hive with QE under.
Replace hive and remove foam.

Or any other suggestion....

 

[Norvic_chris]

Thank you -- presuming we get any decent weather (when I'm not actually trapped indoors at work!!) I will take your advice and be brave.

Of course, you've put your finger on it -- am I actually sure it's a cast? If I'm honest, I'm not! Last year, I had a very similar situation -- I thought the bees were confused by the OMF, and stayed underneath out of choice or lack of space (probably indicating I'm not too bright...) and the bees stayed for about a week before disappearing and a small swarm appearing (as if by magic) close by - I therefore inferred that they were the swarm, and I'm doing the same this year. Is there a sure-fire way of knowing it's a cast and not just a load of bees who like hanging around (!!), when I can't poke about to find the Q? Perhaps worth removing as you suggest, and then see if there's a Q. If it's not a cast, am I right in presuming the bees will return to their original hive?

 

[drstitson]

NC - in this weather you're unlikely to be disturbing a mating flight.
to clarify what rab said - avoid 12-6 period - after work should be fine.
BUT you can deal with the "cast" in any weather.

set up new floor. lift hive over. deal with cast. replace hive.
no actual opening up of the hive needed.

BTW, especially in variable weather, bees seem to get confused and stuck under OMF on returning to hive. you can get quite large collections (presumably self propagating as nasonov comes into play. make sure front of floor/stand is blocked off in future.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for excellent advice - quick question, any ideas on the best way of getting a fair-sized cast off the bottom of a hive without disturbing the hive? Mine is squeezed between the mesh of the OMF and the solid surface of the hive stand -- a small gap of about 4cm (keeping out of the rain I suppose!). I don't want to mess with the hive as it should contain a freshly emerged virgin Q, as part of an artificial swarm, and most advice says don't disturb for around 3 weeks! Dilemma!!

All advice welcome.

or is your new queen under the OM floor and the bees clustering with her?

 

[Norvic_chris]

Success (so far)! Thanks for advice!!

I followed your (collective) advice this evening -- moved hive to new floor, removed "cast" from old floor, replaced hive on original spot. All went well (I think!), it didn't even rain much. A fairly small bunch of bees -- covering perhaps 2 frames now in nuc. Didn't see a queen although bees seemed happy to stay in nuc and fanned their wings vigorously. I would be very worried if this small bunch contains my virgin Q, and she's not in the hive. Perhaps there are two. All part of the learning process I suppose. Time will tell -- and as this is such a small group, I'll probably recombine in a couple of weeks anyway, presuming they don't simply return to their original hive first (or peg out). I've put a board under the floor to deter them from returning to the OMF (plenty of ventilation still, though). Many thanks for advice.