Advice please - very sparse brood pattern but Queen seen

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Ellem

House Bee
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
118
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Location
West Midlands
Hive Type
Other
Number of Hives
hopefully 1 :-S
Hi,

We inspected our hive last weekend and didn't see very much brood, so knew we had to look as priority this week. We saw eggs but they were double laid at the bottom of the cells.

Today, the comb we saw eggs on has no sign of them and the only brood we can see is very sparse. We continued through the hive and did see the Queen but she was in the far end out of what had been the brood (in towards the emptied stores).

Pics of comb with brood on & Queen are both in this folder http://www.flickr.com/photos/64428974@N03/?saved=1 (please let me know if there are any issues with accessing & I will try to upload to here)

I think she looks fairly good sized and had been laying well, but I am concerned about her being a drone layer. What are your opinions?

Though the weather hasn't been brill there have been a few good days where there have been plenty of flyers. I have been feeding a 1:1 syrup and there is definitely now a flow on.

What are your thoughts/advice please as things definitely don't look right to me but I'm a newbie? Plus this is my only hive and I don't have access to other brood frames, etc to test.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
well on pic one that is all sealed or open drone brood.

the scattered pattern would make me think first of a laying worker. are you sure the eggs were all at bottom of cells?

can you give us some more information about the queen and colony?
 
It was a 5 frame nuc I bought at the end of May, Queen (this years, unmarked) came with them. There was brood on 3 frames and stores on the other 2 (mostly uncapped).

It was moved into our hive on 6th June and we noticed a lot of Varroa in the drone brood that was culled.

I don't know if it's clear in the 1st photo but we did see todady what looked to be about 4 capped worker cells, but it was the fact that most were drone that worried me. The scattered pattern had me thinking laying worker and if we hadn't seen the queen I think I would have stuck with that. Could I have a queen in there & a laying worker?

The eggs were definitely all at the bottom, both towards the edge but definitely at the bottom.

The Queen went off lay after the move for a while but we had only about 2-3 days max of non-rainy days in that time and lots on the forum seemed to be reporting a laying break, so I didn't think too much of it. I put some syrup in when they were down to just under 1 frame of stores.

Is there anything else that would be helpful for you to know?
 
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where did you get the nuc? could you have been given a cobbled together one with unproven/virgin queen and brood from another???

probably time to ask the supplier for replacement queen given how far into the season we are now and if not forthcoming shortly taking the hit and sourcing a new queen asap.

BTW i'm impressed that your pictures were taken tomorrow!!!
 
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You got a drone laying queen. The colony is screwed with her. The queen is worse than useless. Kill and replace or watch your colony dwindle to nothingness and die out.
 
Got it from b*d4b**s. The seller is a member of a local BKA (not the one I go to). It could be possible that it's a cobbled one. The brood was only on old frames, with the stores on new. (I hadn't even thought of that until you asked.)

It wasn't the one we'd originally bid for as he said that the apiary had a break-in and the nuc was stolen (he thought it was some people they'd shown round the weekend before as he'd pointed it out as one that was up for sale), but he said that this was only a week behind the other one and that the queen was laying.

Do you think requeening is my best option or that it may be too late?
 
"I think she looks fairly good sized and had been laying well"

if it was her brood you saw. for an established queen i'd only judge laying based upon seeing 1:2:4 ratio of eggs:larvae"sealed worker brood. obviously with a newly mated queen checked within 21 days of starting to lay the ratio would be skewed depending upon exactly when you checked.


any chance of letting us know the seller and or item number on b4b?
 
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"t wasn't the one we'd originally bid for as he said that the apiary had a break-in and the nuc was stolen"

he's not related to our friend william alldis is he?
 
His seller ID is TwentyOne on b4b item #2747.
 
at least you only paid £76! so provided you have a decent number of bees the cost of a queen won't be too painful! (unless he will requeen you).
 
at least you only paid £76! so provided you have a decent number of bees the cost of a queen won't be too painful! (unless he will requeen you).

Yeah, I thought it might be too good to be true when they went for that price!

I've contacted him to say about the problem and am waiting for a response, but if not, as you say, it's not as painful as it could have been. There's got to be something to be grateful for :)

Thanks for all the help. It's very much appreciated.
 
I think the provenance of the nuc was not known, and as such was unmerchantable. You were either sold a 'pup' or at least an unknown/unproven entity. The old case of 'buyer beware'.

However nucs and TBHs are different, so could it be the treatment/handling, since you received it, which may have caused the problem?

If you are confident it is not you at fault, return to the seller for rectification. If 'genuine' you will be sorted, if 'less than a genuine seller' you may have trouble. I would then be wondering how many of these 'thefts' he had been the victim of, whether they were regular, and how many other purchasers had been strung the same story. I am a bit of a cynic and would have 'walked' if it were me buying. A bit like the car salesman saying 'here is picture of the car' and then finding it is a different colour!

RAB
 
It's no consolation, but I have paid £160 for a nuc from my tutor on the course I'm doing and almost finished. As this has been the first check for varroa done since coming out of the nuc, I only now discovered chalk brood in my purchase.

The club say bees have this (the full tutor's colonies do at least but our hives at home haven't) and it's fine mustn't get too hung up on disease!

The Regional Bee Inspector tells me my nuc is just marking time and will never grow to a full sized colony.

Happy days! As newbies and paying course students, I expect the club to look after my interests, particularly as they are a new venture.

Auctions! As Oliver90 says, at least it's 'only' £76 and will burn enough to make you think on "caveat emptor".

Additionally, as I have just finished a philosophical beer! Always remember:

"Old age and treachery will always beat youth and enthusiasm"

This forum is an excellent place for numerous opinions, much learned communication and discussion and when we can interpret what Finman is saying, we have our overseas erudite input. Duck
 

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