Advice please on swarmed colonies

[CB008]

With the huge heat and a field of rape next door, I AS'd both my colonies last Saturday, one in the traditional way and one with a snelgrove. Despite this both colonies swarmed. One swarmed an hour or so later, I got it back but it went the next day. The other swarmed the next day, I put it back and it looks to have stayed at least for now. By my novice reckoning I now have 4 colonies, one Q+ and 3 Q-. My questions are:
- should I have used a QE on the bottom after the AS to stop them going?
- should I leave the Q- colonies completely alone for 3 weeks
- should I feed
- will I have scrub queens. There were queen cells in 2 of the Q-befopre the AS but in the colony which swarmed twice presumably they have had to make an emergency queen cell

I view all of this as a good learning experience but seek answers to the above in order to get it right going forwards

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would be interested in an answer to your first question as that happened to me last year. I left the AS alone for a week to find three small scrub queen cells and no queen. I presume she must have swarmed anyway. Two weeks later all three scrub cells had been torn down. Now that I know a little more I can presume I had missed a swarm cell on the frame I transferred, the queen went and the hatched virgin tore the emergency cells down'
You need to go back into the Q- hives 4/5 days after your AS to choose the best (some leave 2) queen cell otherwise you may lose casts. I presume you left only open charged cells.

 

[CB008]

"People say" that you shoudl leave it to the bees to select the queen cell and they will tear down the others. Equally others suggest as you do

 

[Poly Hive]

Snelgrove strikes again...

PH

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Que?

 

[Otleybee]

This happened to me a few weeks ago and I left two queen cells at the risk of losing a cast with the first virgin queen out. Well I watched the cast leaving last Monday morning but she did not get far. I caught it and united it with one of my weaker hives. Next time I will only leave one queen cell!!

As these are garden bees anything that I can do to avoid swarming will be done.

 

[mannky]

Please tell me what does AS'd mean?

My hive swarmed too last Monday.

There are 6 capped queen cells and I was wondering what to do. I forgot about the propensity to swarm again. I must say the hive is looking pretty empty.

One cell has definitely neatly opened. Any ideas?

 

[drex]

AS= artificial swarm.

You hopefully get to trick the bees into thinking they have swarmed, and hence get to hang onto them. It involves splitting the colony in two, one containing the old queen and the other a queen cell. Later you may decide to re-unite or use it to increase your total number of colonies.

Ted Hooper gives a good description of the process in his book.

 

[djg]

Mannky,

AS= Artificial Swarm (key into Search function on this site for description of AS technique).

I would be imagine that you have a virgin in the hive - and if she does not kill off the other QCs, you can expect casts - and so fewer bees.

Unless the colony had particularly redeeming qualities (versus the negative swarming tendency) and assuming that you are happy with the Q in your other colony, I would be tempted to kill the virgin, demolish the QCs and combine this dwindling bee population with your other colony. Again, the Search function for "Combining" should help with any advice required.

Good luck - but I'm sure you'll be inspecting more rigorously after this episode, and be more enlightened in your response to your observation of the bees' condition with your other hive.

Of course, investing time in taking a local beekeeping course will provide all the answwers which you need - and increase the pleasure which you get from your bees.

 

[Loolabelle1]

Can someone explain why you leave two queen cells when the book recommends one. Our bees swarmed the day before our first inspection. Our queen is clipped but we couldn't find her but thought she might have walked back inside. The suggestion from the guy who helped us was to set up a nucleus, as a back up, with two queen cells. He said first out would sting through and kill the second but they didn't, they swarmed, which obviously didn't go down well with the neighbours, two swarms in as many weeks and I cannot blame them. We are in the process of trying to find an out apiary. Assuming we find a site we thought best to move them as soon as possible but are not sure how you move a hive at this time of year. They are quite strong and we not sure we can get them all to move down into the brood box to move them overnight as they are over three supers. Any ideas would be appreciated. They are also in a standard national so in the future will try and move them to a larger brood box.thanks

 

[djg]

Loolabelle,

I left 5 QCs on last year and lost a swarm and at least one cast.

When I AS-ed last weekend, I left a single large QC.

If I had a single colony, this could be quite risky, but with 3 Q+ hives and a Q+ nuc, I feel I can risk that QC being a dud and re-combine the bees if necessary.

So I agree with your single QC proposition,as it applies to my own situation. Others will have different profiles and intentions.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes it is all so much better if you have at least two hives. So much more leeway for mistakes and unplanned mishaps. I have to go in and choose between two QCs tomorrow.............I shall choose the best and I know that if my decision is wrong I have two other colonies to help out.

 

[Loolabelle1]

Thanks all. I know it is risky with one hive but I am more concerned about the neighbours at the moment so if we have to do an artificial swarm we will leave just the one cell and keep our fingers crossed.

 

[richardbees]

Mannky,

If there's an 'de-capped' Q cell you could assume there's a new Q in the hive - so should destroy all the new Q cells......otherwise you'll lose another swarm when the next Q cell is csealed.

Have a look through and see if you can find a new Q

richard

 

[mannky]

Actually I meant ideas on choosing queen cell but I took our advise and went back to the the books so thanks anyway

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Leave ONE repeat ONE queencell in the hive.

++++

If you MAY have a virgin in the hive, don't cut out all the queencells as you then MAY have no queens in the hive and the hive will be hopelessly queenless.

++++

Not many perple know this but .... if you have two virgins in the hive, they will not swarm if there are no queencells present. They will fight it out - I assume here that the oldest and strongest one will survive as the young one will be weak and a bit dopey if just emerged. Usually queencells will be of a similar age so you can 'pull' i.e. open a queencell and let a virgin out. Then remove the others or maybe make up a nuc with a spare queencell.

 

[Poly Hive]

The first virgin to emerge usually stings the ones still in cells, UNLESS the BEES stop her from doing it.

It's not the virgins decision it seems to depend on how swarmy the DNA of the bees is.

I never leave two cells. Always one.

Preferably an open one then I KNOW there is a larvae in there.

Remember a seemingly capped cell can have had it's trap door glued back on, often with a worker bee trapped inside and dead. Making the unwary convinced they are totally queenless..... which is where using a test frame (2 colonys required here) comes into it's own.

PH