Action stations?!?!

[bjosephd]

2015 queen.

Langstroth bb laid out completely.

Second brood on top for a week or two, no excluder.

Stores and drawing comb in top box, no eggs or brood in top box.

So queen is young and prolific.

One single queen cell charged and drawing down found on the face of a comb.

Queen not spotted but wasn't queen hunting.

No other charged queen cells seen.. only a few empty play cups.

Many newly laid eggs.

What is going on? What do I do?

Thanks!

Swift replies appreciated!

 

[MartinL]

Are you able to do a split?

 

[bjosephd]

Are you able to do a split?

With a little shuffling of kit I could... but I kinda want to have a clue of what's going on before tearing the hive apart!

A single queen cell on the face of the comb sounds like supercedure no? But why on earth if she's a young queen who is clearly laying like billio right now?

And if I do a split I'm going to have to break down about a thousand queen cells once they get their emergency panic on!

 

[MartinL]

If you get the QC in one & HM in the other?

 

[bjosephd]

If you get the QC in one & HM in the other?

Of course...

But I imagine even with that one single queen cell in there, as soon as they go queenless, thy be drawing queen cells left right and centre... they're a strong colony.

 

[MuswellMetro]

i have sometime seen it on shook swarms and bailey changes on the newly drawn comb, my view is it is lack of queen pheromone/ Queen footprint on the new comb and that means the QC building instinct is not supressed, however no justification for that other than my view of what might be causing it

i knock down the first QC I see in such situations and in 95% of the cases they dont draw more QC

 

[bjosephd]

i have sometime seen it on shook swarms and bailey changes on the newly drawn comb, my view is it is lack of queen pheromone/ Queen footprint on the new comb and that means the QC building instinct is not supressed, however no justification for that other than my view of what might be causing it

i knock down the first QC I see in such situations and in 95% of the cases they dont draw more QC

I like the sound of this solution far better!... it was a comb only a couple in from the side if that means anything with regards to your theory. Certainly not in the heart of the brood nest.

Just broke a drill bit trying to hurredly make up a new floor... drill battery flat now too...

So you think go back in, knock it down... and see how they react and don't worry about digging through trying to find the queen (and accidentally squish!)

I was hoping to be drinking cider in the sun by now!!

 

[MuswellMetro]

I like the sound of this solution far better!... it was a comb only a couple in from the side if that means anything with regards to your theory. Certainly not in the heart of the brood nest.

Just broke a drill bit trying to hurredly make up a new floor... drill battery flat now too...

So you think go back in, knock it down... and see how they react and don't worry about digging through trying to find the queen (and accidentally squish!)

I was hoping to be drinking cider in the sun by now!!

i did two shook swarms ,one in march and one in April and both made QC, i knock them down and they are now both on 9 frames of full brood, with the same 2015 queen

BUT watch out for scrub queen cells in the face of the comb next week, a 7 day delay is not going to cause a problem is they were superceding and at least you rdrill will be charged, unless like me you can never find the charger

 

[bjosephd]

For goodness sake, I guess I have to get in there again today/tonight then

No need to find HM? Just get in, knock it down, close up, drink cider...?

 

[bjosephd]

Well I've knocked down... which seemed a shame as I've never seen so much royal jelly in my life... I guess if you have a full Langstroth box feeding 1 queen then it'll be pretty well fed!

Maybe not the best full solution, but a bit late in the day now to do much else.

However, I'm guessing I need to go back through them properly tomorrow morning and see if I have missed others and then assess the situation from there...

...and find HM in order to be ready for action if required!

Drill is now charged.

Any more thoughts peeps and beeks? Let me know...

Thanks

BJD

 

[For want of a better word]

Just let them alone and they will come home...
wagging their tails behind them!

According to Hooper once you spot a queen cell the colony will have swarmed... but I ( and the bees it seems) do not have a copy of the book!

The moral ( perhaps)..Clip your queens and you will not loose all your bees


Yeghes da

 

[bjosephd]

Just let them alone and they will come home...
wagging their tails behind them!

According to Hooper once you spot a queen cell the colony will have swarmed... but I ( and the bees it seems) do not have a copy of the book!

The moral ( perhaps)..Clip your queens and you will not loose all your bees


Yeghes da

Well it wasn't a capped queen cell.
It was only one.
And the hive was heaving with bees.
So if it has swarmed it's taken not a lot more than a search party.
I was last in there less than a week ago and saw the queen.
Also there are tons of eggs in there today.
Whatever's going on, I think already swarmed, is not it.

 

[birdsandbees]

According to Hooper once you spot a queen cell the colony will have swarmed... but I ( and the bees it seems) do not have a copy of the book!

The moral ( perhaps)..Clip your queens and you will not loose all your bees

Yeghes da

Really?
Seems most bees haven't read this book! I've had two colonies this year loaded with Queen cells (most sealed) on inspection and still had the queen present and laying, I'm glad they can't read!

 

[Eyeman]

No reason to assume they have swarmed with an uncapped QC and load if eggs.
If the colony has desirable characteristics then I would have removed the frame with the QC & bees along with another frame with bees & one of stores and made up a nuc. Once this nuc is a Q+ you will have a backup if swarm control fails or mating doesn't go to plan.

 

[Stevie Day]

With a little shuffling of kit I could... but I kinda want to have a clue of what's going on before tearing the hive apart!

A single queen cell on the face of the comb sounds like supercedure no? But why on earth if she's a young queen who is clearly laying like billio right now?

And if I do a split I'm going to have to break down about a thousand queen cells once they get their emergency panic on!

A young queen is no guarantee of longevity.

I did a split in May to repopulate a hive. New queen reared, mated & laying plenty of brood in a good pattern. All looked good.
Last week couldn't find her, & hive superceding, no young larvae or eggs (hive not swarmed). This week still no queen, few remaining uncapped larvae & additional emergency QC.

I believe your 1st course of action is determine if you have a queen or not. Double inspect the brood frames, check the hive floor. Has she got past the QE into the super?

Also check bias as an indicator of her presence. What is the youngest brood you can see?
If its all capped, likely hood she departed.

 

[Eyeman]

He said

Many newly laid eggs.

So I can't see anything to suggest it has swarmed.

 

[Stevie Day]

He said


So I can't see anything to suggest it has swarmed.

Yep I agree, a good basis that they haven't swarmed & queen still there.

But should still establish if that she is. If she is, then they could be prepping for swarming or supercedure.

If she has been despatched by the hive or demised, then its supercedure. Then stripping down the QC will leave the hive with no queen.

With each finding, there is a probability, not a certainty of outcome. So looking at all the findings & what they indicate give a confidence of probable certainty.

 

[Eyeman]

If she has been despatched by the hive or demised, then its supercedure. Then stripping down the QC will leave the hive with no queen.

Lot of eggs provides that safeguard after removing the QC they can still raise another queen if Q-, all-be-it an emergency one.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

No reason to assume they have swarmed with an uncapped QC and load if eggs.
If the colony has desirable characteristics then I would have removed the frame with the QC & bees along with another frame with bees & one of stores and made up a nuc. Once this nuc is a Q+ you will have a backup if swarm control fails or mating doesn't go to plan.

+1

 

[bjosephd]

So I went through slow and steady, found the old queen going about her business as usual.

Shaked off all frames and had look... a good 8 langstroth frames laid out solid.

BIAS from eggs to emergence.

I found I think 2 queen cups charged with an egg but no jelly, and so have broken those down.

All other queen cups empty.

I have moved a couple of frames of brood up to the top box to see if simply the queen was reluctant to move up and so running out of aparent laying space below.

I should probably have swapped the boxes but I'd been in there long enough.

I will look again in a few days time to see if they have reacted with queen cells of any seriousness.

I will probably be putting them on a new (underfloor entrance) floor too so will maybe swap the boxes at the same time.

Hmm... I guess swarming season is still very much in the air, especially with this streatch of wonderful weather... I'd rather swarms incoming than outgoing!