A possible new way of re-queening a hive.

[Speybee]

Some would say K. I. S. S
I do it exactly the same as the others. but on a bigger colony I leave the tab on until day three of introduction.

Soz but what does K.I.S.S. Acronym mean?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Keep it simple, stupid or silly

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Evening,
Just curious as to what might happen this time of year if you introduced the queen immediately after removing the old one as mentioned but didn't check for queen cells

To be honest, I seldom do unless the candy tab has been left in place for two or three days. I usually uncover the candy 24 hours or less after the cage was put in, don't check, and leave them get on with it. Worked perfectly for years

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for all the replies.

I have seen a lot of youtube videos on the subject and they always seem to make a big fuss of killing the queen and emergency cells before introduction.

And the people who have the time to post these videos are, in general, not the people to turn to for advice

 

[ericbeaumont]

But if its advised by Danni and Jenkinsbrynmair, with a seal of approval from Pargyle....... then who am I to argue.

Advice given is based on experience but do not make the mistake of following advice blindly, for that way you may be tempted to blame failure on others.

Queen introduction is a complex part of beekeeping and failure is routine.

Better to weigh up all incoming suggestions and work out your plan with your bees; that way you own your failure or success and the learning is more satisfying.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I started with an f1 buckfast. I now have 2 x f2 (2019) and 2x f3 (2020), all open mated. One of my f3s is defensive compared to my other hives, this is the one I am thinking about re-queening.

Here's an idea to ponder: next season when all is booming, kill the Q in the defensive colony and unite the box to one better. A few weeks later take it off again: it'll re-queen itself on less defensive genetics.

Alternatively, cage the defensive Q for a week, remove and kill her and give a frame of brood from a less defensive colony; they'll make emergency QCs and you're off again. Of course, you could raise queens by other methods, or even buy a queen.

 

[madasafish]

For really horrible hives ( I mean the type which follow , fly out you when you go near you and cloud round your head trying to kill you):
I use a queen introduction cage pressed into the foundation over some emerging brood.. Queen inserted into that. Emerging bees bond with queen and feed/look after her. Eventually after a week release the queen - if the colony have not done so already by burrowing through the wax...##

Otherwise as Mark for less horrible bees.. leave tab on for three days..


## Only had to do this twice.. successfully .

And as above , kill old , requeen within the hour..

 

[Beersinthegarden]

When you have a large colony to re-queen is it best to use the nuc method or not?

 

[Speybee]

Keep it simple, stupid or silly

Thanks ( certainly back in the loop now)

 

[Curly green finger's]

When you have a large colony to re-queen is it best to use the nuc method or not?

All depends how they react to the Queen when you put here on the top of the frames in a cage of course.
The nuc method is fine but more work and equipment.

 

[Beersinthegarden]

All depends how they react to the Queen when you put here on the top of the frames in a cage of course.
The nuc method is fine but more work and equipment.

So you remove the old queen how long would you wait before introducing the new and testing the reaction please?

 

[Swarm]

When you have a large colony to re-queen is it best to use the nuc method or not?

Yes.

 

[Curly green finger's]

So you remove the old queen how long would you wait before introducing the new and testing the reaction please?

Straight away as soon as the old queen is removed.
There's no harm doing this first.
Even leaving the Queen for up to 3 days.
I've not had bees eat through queen candy in less than 3 days.. Even with a big colony ( don't use fondant it needs to be harder) I also tape over my tabs as I use mainly these, good gaffa tape is the best.

I've also noticed that if there is less older bees in the hive the better.
Afternoon introductions, on a calm warmish day..

 

[bobba]

Advice given is based on experience but do not make the mistake of following advice blindly, for that way you may be tempted to blame failure on others.

Queen introduction is a complex part of beekeeping and failure is routine.

Better to weigh up all incoming suggestions and work out your plan with your bees; that way you own your failure or success and the learning is more satisfying.

I understand the sentiment of what you are saying. I would never blame my failure on others unless I believed they had intentionally given me bad advice.

I do however give credit to those who have contributed to my success. I would not have made it this far in bee keeping without the help I have received from this forum. The 3 people I mentioned earlier (and many others) have all kindly taken much time to answer many of my questions, and have always guided me well.

I know there is no guarantee what they say will work for me. We are dealing with biological systems, something I have a lot of experience with in my day job. And if there is one lesson to take home from my day job, that's biological systems don't always behave as expected.

No one is forcing me to ask questions here, and I am not obliged to follow any advice offered. At the end of the day, the decisions I make rest on my shoulders.

 

[beeno]

Keep it simple, stupid or silly

That would be KISSS

 

[Wingy]

bobba said:
I started with an f1 buckfast. I now have 2 x f2 (2019) and 2x f3 (2020), all open mated. One of my f3s is defensive compared to my other hives, this is the one I am thinking about re-queening.

here lies your problem, I find with Buckfast bees the further down the mongrel line F2 & F3 they can become bees from hell (not always depends what they mate with in your area)
Last season I gave a Queen a final chance going into winter F3 Buckfast as they were becoming a bit over defensive.
Started this season ok until they got to double brood (Langstroth)
Then on opening the hive they just attacked, my suit is not sting proof and I don’t wear gloves. I took excess of 70 stings.
Couple of days later I went back with the intention of finding the Queen. All padded up in anticipation and they met me at the gate. I was so covered in bees I just dispatched the whole hive there and then.

 

[Beersinthegarden]

Have taken some advice from this thread and gone for it today re-queening a hive, old queen out this afternoon maybe ten mins later new one straight in reaction didn't look aggressive and bees could be easily moved from her cage so I left her in there tabs intact. I guess i'll check tomorrow and remove the tabs within 24 hours.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Well sounds like I've made a complete cock up of requeening today. . I've had a queenless hive for the last 5 weeks so today I placed a queen in a cage on top of the frames and watched the bee's reaction. Within seconds the bees were all over the cage and I assumed they were trying to ball her but on closer inspection they were actually feeding her through the mesh. As a test I opened the cage and the bees chased her around the outside of the cage for a minute or so but when I put the cage back on the frames the workers stood around her and fed her. After a couple of minutes of the entourage feeding and licking her she slowly walked down between the frames with the entourage following.
Lets see what happens.

 

[bobba]

Beersinthegarden - I am delighted you were helped by my thread, I hope it all goes well. Please let everyone know the outcome.

Wingy - I too have heard buckfast can sometimes become defensive if run for too many generations. Using my own stock I can only rear more F3s or F4s. I have also heard many times how productive good buckfast bees are.

So maintaining productive stock and reducing the likelihood of developing defensiveness is my thinking behind re-queening.

I don't think my tetchy hive is of particular concern. They have never stung me, they don't follow. I can use the lawn mower right next the hive and they are not bothered.

But as soon as I crack the lid, I am usually greeted by a little sortie that want to investigate my face. There have been a few times mid inspection when in the blink of an eye, 50% of the box are suddenly in the air. Its nothing a puff of smoke cant handle, but my f2s have never done that.

My other F3 is still in a single brood, their numbers are lower so its hard to gauge their defensiveness.

I am curious to run at least one of the f3s next season, just to see how they do. I would like to see how they compare to the f2s in terms of productiveness.

I am also thinking if I do re-queen one of the f3s, then I will be able to use brood as others have suggested to raise more f2s should I need them.

If anyone else has bucks, do you get these problems and do you also have to periodically bring in new queens?

 

[madasafish]

So you remove the old queen how long would you wait before introducing the new and testing the reaction please?

within 30 minutes..

But as the majority of my hives are well behaved maybe mine are an exception. Aggressive bees have a short lifespan in our garden. and are requeened asap to prevent genes spreading..