A ban on smacking children in Wales: a personal testimony.

[Amari]

It's good that smacking has been banned. My experience:

1945-7, age 4-7, South Yorkshire: Mrs Mortimer, the headmistress, would lift the leg of my short trousers and smack my thigh. On one occasion this followed my clumsy and unsuccessful attempt to lower an under-garment of a female pupil.

1948-51. South Wales. Ruler on the outstretched hand. Fairly frequent.

1951-2. Co. Durham: punishment by humiliation: at school dinners I bent a spoon in half. I was told to visit every class in the junior school and ask if they 'wanted me'. None did. Extra humiliation: my brother was in one of the classes.

1953-6. Grammar school in Cambridge. 'Whacker' Warne, the history master, asked the miscreant to bend over in front of the class. A plimsoll was applied several times.

I'm proud to say that I never told my parents of these events though I've always wondered if they got to know - Mrs Mortimer lived next door......

Were you similarly scarred and traumatised?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60781395

 

[BugsInABox]

It's good that smacking has been banned. My experience:

1945-7, age 4-7, South Yorkshire: Mrs Mortimer, the headmistress, would lift the leg of my short trousers and smack my thigh. On one occasion this followed my clumsy and unsuccessful attempt to lower a clothing garment of a female pupil.

1948-51. South Wales. Ruler on the outstretched hand. Fairly frequent.

1951-2. Co. Durham: punishment by humiliation: at school dinners I bent a spoon in half. I was told to visit every class in the junior school and ask if they 'wanted me'. None did. Extra humiliation: my brother was in one of the classes.

1953-6. Grammar school in Cambridge. 'Whacker' Warne, the history master, asked the miscreant to bend over in front of the class. A plimsoll was applied several times.

I'm proud to say that I never told my parents of these events though I've always wondered if they got to know - Mrs Mortimer lived next door......

Were you similarly scarred and traumatised?

Miss Canter used to slap our thighs aged 8 (us not her) - but Mr Parry (aged 7) did me much more harm though he never laid a finger. This was the mid 70s.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I remember once at primary school we had dancing as PE. One of the teachers made me dance with a disheveled dirty smelly boy ( I didn’t realise at a tender age of six that the lad was just poor and not valued by his parents). I refused whereupon she dragged me out into the stage and slapped my legs. This was a Catholic school. Not only did it hurt but I was mortified that a grown up could hurt a child this way. I ran away home some two miles and hid crying in the garden till my parents came home from work. 65 years later this thread has prodded the memory which is still clear as day.
At grammar school we had an English master who was extremely fond of “The Slipper” which he used with great gusto on the younger boys with alarming frequency. We just called him a dirty old git but it was probably more serious than that.

 

[The Poot]

At infant school my female class teacher (whose name I don’t remember) slapped the back of my legs when I got maths questions wrong. It led to me failing my maths O level twice!
At grammar school I remember being grabbed by the hair at the side of my head as we filed out of assembly. The games master lifted me by the hair until I was on tip toe, then told me to get it cut.
I laughed that one off. I went on to grow my hair long, to be individual - like everyone else!

 

[pargyle]

The cane was a regular feature at both my Junior School and the Grammar School I went to ... I got my dose for having been caught fighting in the valleys of the air raid shelters on rough land opposite the Junior School ... Can't say that it left a lasting impression on me ... apart from the feeling that I didn't start the fight and the two strokes on the hand was an injustice as it was a bully who had inflicted himself on me once too often and got two punches from me that left his nose bleeding and a subseuquent black eye . The kudos of having inflicted the damage I did rather kept me safe from any further bullying and a place in the school hierachy as having been unfairly punished.

What does live me is the memory of one of my friends, who kicked a teacher for dragging him out of his chair by his ear, being hauled out in front of the whole school assembly the following morning to be publicly caned and reduced to tears. In these enlightened times it would be assault on a grand scale but in the 1950's ... rather commonplace but probably less common than my father and grandfather experienced in their school days. There were, in teaching, as in other professions, people who sought to abuse their positions of trust ... and used inapropriate punishments in inappropriate situations.

So ... it took a few years to get rid of corporal punishment in schools but, I have to say, when my son in law (a teacher) was recently threatened with personal violence by a fifth form senior after he had been asked to stop lingering in the corridor and go to his alloted class I rather feel the need to bring it back. Violence often begets violence but I do wonder how teachers, whose only real censure is exclusion (hardly a punishment), are supposed to deal with such massive transgressions ? I asked what the result was in this case ... the answer, nothing ~ it's a known 'problem family', the school don't want exclusions and social services are already involved. Me ? It annoyed me so much I would have happily gone down and found the culprit and beaten seven shades of excrement out of him ... naturally I didn't.

Where I think the new Welsh legislation is imperfect is that there are already substantial laws regarding assault and child abuse of any kind - I've seen behaviour by parents that I find abhorrent - but we have to be careful that we discriminate between pre-meditated and obvious abuse of a child by anyone and the parent, whose child has transgressed beyond the point of reason or safety, needs to bring the matter firmly to an end.

I can only remember one occasion when one of our children was so completely out of control for some reason and reasoning or calm discssion had failed to the point where he was trying to get free of his mother's grip and pulled her into the road. She administered a sharp slap on the leg of the child and the shock was so much that it put an immediate end to the situation. In fairness, they were both in tears after the event ... but this now qualifies as a criminal offence and I have worries that the law being the ass that it sometimes is will end up being abused.

 

[pargyle]

I remember once at primary school we had dancing as PE. One of the teachers made me dance with a disheveled dirty smelly boy ( I didn’t realise at a tender age of six that the lad was just poor and not valued by his parents). I refused whereupon she dragged me out into the stage and slapped my legs. This was a Catholic school. Not only did it hurt but I was mortified that a grown up could hurt a child this way. I ran away home some two miles and hid crying in the garden till my parents came home from work. 65 years later this thread has prodded the memory which is still clear as day.
At grammar school we had an English master who was extremely fond of “The Slipper” which he used with great gusto on the younger boys with alarming frequency. We just called him a dirty old git but it was probably more serious than that.

My wife went to a Convent School for a time....the Nuns left a lasting impression on her ... One who called her a 'Silly goose' is personally responsible for her lifelong fear of anything mathematical, Sister Brigitte, who forced her to eat every scrap of fish and beetroot on her dinner plate, ensured that it was 30 years before she would eat either and then only after a lot of therapy from me ... although even I would not put fish and beetroot together on the same plate ! I know there were other instances of, let's be kind, thoughtless behaviour by some of the nuns in charge that she still remembers even in our advancing years. It is not always physical mistreatment that can have a lasting effect on a child ...words alone can have a very traumatising effect. But how do you legislate for that ... it does not leave any enduring outward signs of the violence ?

 

[BugsInABox]

It is not always physical mistreatment that can have a lasting effect on a child ...words alone can have a very traumatising effect. But how do you legislate for that ... it does not leave any enduring outward signs of the violence ?

This is completely true and was the point of my own post. I'd have 2 Miss Canters for 1 Mr Parry.

 

[Bryang]

I was born in '43. My dad, after a serious accident in the mines was sent up to Coventry to work in the munitions factories. My mother took "lodgings" in a house in Abercwmboi. The elderly owners looked after myself and my older sister when our mam went to work. They were wonderful with us, Mr and Mrs Roberts. They only spoke Welsh around the house, so as a very young child I heard and spoke mainly Welsh.. We moved in '47 over the mountain to Maerdy, where I went to infants school.... I had difficulty understanding the teachers because they spoke only English.. There was one teacher who would walk up behind me and give me a thump across the head if she heard me speak Welsh and I would be made to stand in the corner with a "dunce" cap on my head.( Have you heard of the " Welsh Not" rules in schools?).. Thru my life I have been unable to learn any other language, and for years I had a bad stutter. After I joined the RAF I was given speech therapy to help me. It didn't help me having a rather viscous father and a mother that encouraged him by lying about who had been naughty when he was in work. I was the second oldest of 6 children... Personally I think children should be chastized if they have been naughty, but not physically punished like I was...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Mr Parry (aged 7) did me much more harm though he never laid a finger. This was the mid 70s.

I had a maths teacher like that in comprehensive school, made my life hell for twelve months a lot of family favours had to be called in and old school ties called upon to sort it. Some people speak very highly of her, and apparently she nowadays speaks highly of me to my mother.
I've promised to go to her funeral when she pops - just so I know which grave to dance on
Those days of hell in her maths classes still upset me forty years later.

 

[moondoggy]

My metalwork teacher placed both his hands over my ears and lifted me off the ground and held me there for several seconds. Took me a few days to recover from a very painful neck. So, I was literally hanged at school. Of course, in those days, you didn’t dare tell your parents for fear of getting whacked again.
I can’t remember why he did it to me, but it would have been something very trivial as I was not a particularly naughty boy.

 

[Antipodes]

I never had even a finger laid on me at school here in Australia, but the howls, screams and pleadings of other kids who were beaten with canes and the one metre ruler are still there though. The 30 cm ruler applied with force on the sharp edge to the back of the fingers was a favourite of one teacher. I remember one tough kid, who never seemed to cry, saying to her in a matter of fact way, "Stop it. That hurts".

But the schools were generally more violent in the past weren't they? I recall lots of fights amongst the kids. Dad had a bad first day at school when his nose was badly broken by an older bigger kid. That was back in the UK.

 

[Amari]

But the schools were generally more violent in the past weren't they? I recall lots of fights amongst the kids. Dad had a bad first day at school when his nose was badly broken by an older bigger kid. That was back in the UK.

Yes, I got into a lot of one-to-one combat age 10-12. I've no idea if kids still do this.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One of our most loved and respected teachers Passed away during the first lockdown (he was in his nineties) Danny Dap our PE teacher, spry and fit up to the end (a dap is Welsh for plimsol) If one of us misbehaved he would shout 'give me your dap boy' he would then bend you over and just give you one good wallop across the backside. It was almost a badge of honour to be 'dapped' by Danny.
I remember once, one lad in my class Alan, who was, and still is a top class sportsman, who always had the best of everything. We were up to high jinks on the athletics track one day and Danny caught us 'Davies - your dap!' Alan just smugly turned around and said 'I've only got my running spikes sir' (the only boy in our year who did - and didn't we know it!) 'That will do' said Danny 'and also be a lesson to you, not think you're above everyone else'

 

[Bodiam Bees]

My wife went to a Convent School for a time....the Nuns left a lasting impression on her ... One who called her a 'Silly goose' is personally responsible for her lifelong fear of anything mathematical, Sister Brigitte, who forced her to eat every scrap of fish and beetroot on her dinner plate, ensured that it was 30 years before she would eat either and then only after a lot of therapy from me ... although even I would not put fish and beetroot together on the same plate ! I know there were other instances of, let's be kind, thoughtless behaviour by some of the nuns in charge that she still remembers even in our advancing years. It is not always physical mistreatment that can have a lasting effect on a child ...words alone can have a very traumatising effect. But how do you legislate for that ... it does not leave any enduring outward signs of the violence ?

You need to explore the delights of fresh mackerel and a beetroot relish.

 

[Swarm]

A good hiding never hurt anyone, if anything it teaches you there is injustice in the world. I came to the defence of one poor kid getting the 'treatment' off one nasty piece of work, told him to leave him alone. When he turned on me, I put him swiftly into an arm lock and held him helpless for a while.
Needless to say, I ended up in the Head's office and the punishment I received was ten times worse than that poor kid suffered but it was worth it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You need to explore the delights of fresh mackerel and a beetroot relish.

oh ychafi
I love beetroot but......................

 

[Boston Bees]

A good hiding never hurt anyone, if anything it teaches you there is injustice in the world. I came to the defence of one poor kid getting the 'treatment' off one nasty piece of work, told him to leave him alone. When he turned on me, I put him swiftly into an arm lock and held him helpless for a while.
Needless to say, I ended up in the Head's office and the punishment I received was ten times worse than that poor kid suffered but it was worth it.

Quite right too. You are too old to be beating up children.

 

[Sayle]

The only thing smacking children teaches is that physical pain is a legitimate tool for enforcing your will on others - nothing more. Unless it's because it teaches them not do it again, which a) I doubt and b) advocates you manage behaviour through fear. Which I'm sure is extremely healthy for them and your relationship with them.

 

[pargyle]

You need to explore the delights of fresh mackerel and a beetroot relish.

Yes I could live with that ... but not boiled cod and beetroot ....just looks wrong a

 

[OldFarm]

My dad used to dish out the cane in a secondary school. Other teachers would send boys to him for punishment and if he caught kids smoking it was one stroke for each offence. I asked him about caning a few of times, but he only ever said three things, one was that there was a boy joining the school who had a 60 a day habit and he looked quite distressed about it, the second was that someone had broken into his classroom and stolen his cane (he thought it quite funny and made another cane) and the last was when a lad had been sent to him to be disciplined and a letter was to be sent to the family, he knew that the boys dad would be brutal and he didn't want to send the letter. Over the years it became clear that there were people who were scared to death of him (a lad came to the house one day with a mutual friend and on seeing dad, all colour drained from his face and he clearly wanted the ground to swallow him up), and others who had a great deal of respect for him, based on former pupils who stopped by the house to say hello - he knew all their names, even the ones he hadn't seen in 30+ years.