3 feet / 3 miles and lost foragers

[oxnatbees]

I was moving a hive 100 metres the other day and explaining to my helper how we can force the bees to re-orient when they emerge, by placing a screen of branches in front of the hive entrance. The theory is that this forces them to slow down and memorise a new route back to the entrance, rather than just zooming out and then realising the hive is gone when they return to the old position.

This made me wonder: why do we assume bees will re-orient if you move a hive over 3 miles? What if people who move hives a long way, lose a lot of foragers? You might not realise!

This would affect migratory beekeepers most.

Can someone who moves hives around a lot, elucidate please?

 

[Poly Hive]

It is assumed (mostly correctly) that the foragers fly a mile and a half at most... ish... So by moving them the proverbial 3 miles they don't find their old routes and return to the old spot.

In general, this is right and works.

Personally, I have never moved apiaries that short a distance as my moves were Home to OSR 20 odd miles, then from there to Heather some 50 miles then Heather to home another 50 miles or so. Not much danger there of finding old flight lines.

PH

 

[oxnatbees]

My point is not, how far away from the hive do the foragers recognise the area and find their way back; my point is if you move a hive more than a few miles, i.e. to an area they do not recognise, how do they know to re-orient when they emerge from the hive? Won't some just zoom off... and be lost?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My point is not, how far away from the hive do the foragers recognise the area and find their way back; my point is if you move a hive more than a few miles, i.e. to an area they do not recognise, how do they know to re-orient when they emerge from the hive? Won't some just zoom off... and be lost?

Bees briefly orient on leaving the hive almost every morning - when the immediate surrounds of the hive has changed significantly, they will take more time in reorienting properly. However, as Polyhive said, if, when they go out foraging and they encounter a landmark they used when at the previous location, they will just go back to using the old, previously used route to the old location.

 

[Poly Hive]

Some probably do zoom off and are lost.

On opening moved colonies the very first thing they do is to fan at the entrance to cool and refrexh the air in the colony and then they orientate. Which is to say the start by facing the hive and so on and so on but with in 15 minutes or so the pollen will start to arrive.

But............not nearly enough aare lost to matter. So in short a non problem.

PH

 

[oxnatbees]

OK - I see what you mean now - thank you, one learns something every time here.

 

[Wingy]

Just started to move my hive yesterday. I need to move it 10' in total so will do it in small increments over the next couple of months.
About 1/2 hour after I moved it (3') there were about 10 bees hovering around where home was. They kept flying out, turning & reapproaching until they eventually landed on the hive & made their way in. Was interesting to watch

 

[wessexmario]

Just started to move my hive yesterday. I need to move it 10' in total so will do it in small increments over the next couple of months.
About 1/2 hour after I moved it (3') there were about 10 bees hovering around where home was. They kept flying out, turning & reapproaching until they eventually landed on the hive & made their way in. Was interesting to watch

Bees will re-orientate after 3 days confined inside, so this at time of year you can wait for the weather forecast to be below 10C for 3 days, then you can make the move in one go.
Once spring arrives and they're flying every day, then you will have to move them just a yard or so at a time.

 

[Millet]

Bees will re-orientate after 3 days confined inside, so this at time of year you can wait for the weather forecast to be below 10C for 3 days, then you can make the move in one go.
Once spring arrives and they're flying every day, then you will have to move them just a yard or so at a time.

It makes me wonder how many folk on here me included see bees flying in lower temperatures.

 

[mintmoth]

On a bit of a tangent, when it's warm enough, I want to move a colony out of the WBC I bought them in, and into a National on the same spot. The National will obviously look very different to the hive they are used to. Will they be very confused, or accept that the outside of their home has changed shape and colour (from white to wood). My intention is to simply transfer the frames wholesale, not put them on new frames.

 

[Millet]

On a bit of a tangent, when it's warm enough, I want to move a colony out of the WBC I bought them in, and into a National on the same spot. The National will obviously look very different to the hive they are used to. Will they be very confused, or accept that the outside of their home has changed shape and colour (from white to wood). My intention is to simply transfer the frames wholesale, not put them on new frames.

I transferred two colonies from brown ceder into green poly hives and onto under floor entrances last year, all was back to normal after around 30min's, but i kept them on the same spot/stand.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

On a bit of a tangent, when it's warm enough, I want to move a colony out of the WBC I bought them in, and into a National on the same spot. The National will obviously look very different to the hive they are used to. Will they be very confused, or accept that the outside of their home has changed shape and colour (from white to wood). My intention is to simply transfer the frames wholesale, not put them on new frames.

The hive pheromones will be enough to keep them on track

 

[Wingy]

It makes me wonder how many folk on here me included see bees flying in lower temperatures.

Exactly same here on Sunday there was a good frost on the ground when I moved the hive all seemed still, no flying bees and 4degrees C. That's why I was then shocked to see about 10 bees looking for home. Had I moved the hive the fill 10' I think those bees wouldn't have got back in

 

[oliver90owner]

A week, or more, of confinement is clearly preferable. Colonies are not strong enough to afford even 10% losses.

It is important not to move them even very short distances if the weather is just about warm enough for a short period, as they may well chill and not regain the safety of the cluster. They need to get back to the entrance promptly, without undue time wasting, to avoid chilling.

100m is not advised if the bees are foraging, I would think. One move, without confinement, will be losing important pollen foragers, which may not be replaced for another couple of months. One question might be how strong do you think this colony might be at this time of the year?

But, if you must, you just do it at the start of a forecast cold period and take re-orientation precautions. Rotating the hive entrance a few degrees (not more than 45) is also another aid to encourage re-orientation.

Even moving a hive a metre can lose large numbers of bees if it is done thoughtlessly in some situations. I will leave you to think of the most obvious scenario for that!

 

[mintmoth]

I transferred two colonies from brown ceder into green poly hives and onto under floor entrances last year, all was back to normal after around 30min's, but i kept them on the same spot/stand.

The hive pheromones will be enough to keep them on track

Thanks both, that's what I hoped to hear.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I could do with a bit of advice.

I collect swarms in bait boxes in the local area..... in mates gardens etc. I don't check these daily so some of the swarms may be in the box for several days before collecting. I then would like to move them to an isolation apiary and leave them the for several weeks to check for Foulbrood etc.

How can I move the swarm box the short distance to my isolation apiary ( less than 3 miles) without the foragers returning to the bait hive position? Last year I had to move them to the edge of one of my other apiaries about 7 miles away which defeats the point of the isolation apiary!

 

[Poly Hive]

The obvious answer is to move your isolation unit to a site which is more than 3 miles from your collection area.

Or if that is not possible then follow all the advice to obstruct entrances and "force" the bees to relocate.

When changing hive types it pays to put a distinctive marker on the roof for a few days, move the bees over and then replace the marker which will aid in the bees realising the site is the same. I often use an upturned brick for instance.


PH

 

[Swarm]

The obvious answer is to move your isolation unit to a site which is more than 3 miles from your collection area.

A bit difficult to do when you don't know where a swarm will turn up.

 

[wessexmario]

It makes me wonder how many folk on here me included see bees flying in lower temperatures.

true, but generally in lower temperatures bees will tend to only be collecting water or defecating, both of which will be within relatively close range of the hive rather than flying for miles.

to minimise losses of bees, you can move them at early morning, late evening or in the night hours between when there's none out flying, or put an entrance block on overnight and then let them out once the move has been done the next day.

 

[Amari]

I was moving a hive 100 metres the other day and explaining to my helper how we can force the bees to re-orient when they emerge, by placing a screen of branches in front of the hive entrance. The theory is that this forces them to slow down and memorise a new route back to the entrance, rather than just zooming out and then realising the hive is gone when they return to the old position.
This made me wonder: why do we assume bees will re-orient if you move a hive over 3 miles? What if people who move hives a long way, lose a lot of foragers? You might not realise!
This would affect migratory beekeepers most.
Can someone who moves hives around a lot, elucidate please?

I recently visited a permanent exhibition attached to the retail outlet of a commercial beekeeper in Beechworth, Victoria, Au. The display boards explained the migratory beekeeping process. When the hives are to be moved the truck arrives late afternoon when the bees are still flying. The hives are loaded on to the truck. The beekeepers then adjourn for a smoko while the bees reorientate and find their hives on the truck. Come darkness the bees are all home and the truck departs.
This seems to contradict all our teaching re 3ft/3miles!