2nd’s pine boxes

[Wingy]

Seemed good value last winter when I bought a combination of 30+ Langstroth brood & supers, not so sure now though.
Ok 2nd’s quality you expect a little less than perfect but I must admit all seemed very good with only a few knots & only minor twists in the timber. Spent the winter months building them using glue & nails then a good couple of coats of paint on the outside (was it my mistake not to paint the edges where they stack on top of each other?)
Just started my end of season clean up prior to winter storage and finding that many of the boxes have started to rot already, with the hive tool easily gouging soft soggy wood while trying to clean up the edges. Now trying to dry them out for another coat of paint before next season.
Other than buying cedar boxes any advice welcome on how best to preserve & protect these boxes.
Thanks

 

[Murox]

Pine boxes, its prone to such problems. You could try a proprietary wood hardener for wet rot - the stuff certainly works well but you should check about possible toxicity to bees and how long it needs to be 'aired off' for.

 

[Antipodes]

Is the rot just on the meeting edges?

I find rot up the sides of boxes where water has sat between them, so yes, painting the edges where they stack is a must for me. Quality undercoat and primer then three or four coats of good quality exterior paint.

Are the inside walls soggy and wet?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

painting the edges where they stack is a must for me. Quality undercoat and primer then three or four coats of good quality exterior paint.

Looks like in the end, much cheaper and less faff to buy cedar!

 

[Antipodes]

For sure! If I had cedar boxes, I wouldn't paint them at all. Cedar is a better insulator than pine too as I understand it.

 

[user 819]

Poor quality of porous grained wood used in my view. I use some pine boxes and non show signs of rot, I don't paint the mating edges. Each season I torch and clean them as detritus/ propolis builds up, heat and scraping will spread the propolis generally to an even thin film that will protect the edges for a natural seal.

 

[understanding_bees]

Other than buying cedar boxes any advice welcome on how best to preserve & protect these boxes.

You may refer to my previous comments about hot wax dipping, in paraffin wax. My experience seems to indicate that waxing of hive boxes gives far greater protection to the wood than is possible with painting. The reason for this is that painting only treats the surface of the wood, but that hive boxes which are "deep fried" in wax can be 100% impregnated with wax, and therefore totally waterproof.
I do not know what price you may be charged if you wanted to have boxes treated by someone with a wax melter. I do know that it is possible for a moderately skilled home workshop person to make their own wax dipping vat from galvanised sheet metal. I have made my own vat which has enabled me to be completely successful in dipping my boxes.
If there is sufficient interest in such a project, I could be persuaded to create documentation giving details of how I built it.

 

[Wingy]

Is the rot just on the meeting edges?

I find rot up the sides of boxes where water has sat between them, so yes, painting the edges where they stack is a must for me. Quality undercoat and primer then three or four coats of good quality exterior paint.

Are the inside walls soggy and wet?

mostly just the edges it appears that some may not have sat perfectly square on top of each other and although the bees had sealed the minute gap from the inside it has then been able to hold water between the boxes from the outside.

 

[madasafish]

I am a skinflint/ I made my hives from cheap wood. (and one from shuttering ply). I made some nucs from pallet wood - free!

Five years later no rot. *but overlapping roofs so water tends not to hit walls/joints too much..

Paint in my view is a waste of time. I use water based wood stain (external preferably with a 3-5 years rating). I apply several coats to all edges but as drying time is typically a few hours ,three coats a day is possible in a day. And two coats to vertical surfaces.

And top up every 3 years or so when dry (in situ possible)

I do not care if bee friendly or not. Bees don't care and no obvious signs of problems with dead bees.

Primer/undercoat etc is way too much work...

 

[robmort]

Water-based wood preservers/stains containing wax as a water repellant seem to be easiest and best. Beats fiddling around with melting beeswax or non-penetrating oil-based paints. Minimum of 5 year effectiveness too.

 

[The Poot]

I have used clear silicone preserver which just prevents water penetration into the wood. Works well, easy to apply and leaves the natural wood appearance.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Seemed good value last winter

Looks like in the end, much cheaper and less faff to buy cedar!

Like Hemo, I have a few pine boxes (old, good pine) self-sealed by propolis over the years, but when it comes to wood hives it usually turns out to be buy cheap, buy twice. This is true of most softwoods and includes ply (eventually) and after all the paint and primer and sealer and labour and this and that, outcome is that cedar or poly are best value long-term.

Hot wax dipping works but on a scale to make it worthwhile: in the US and Australia where wood is prone to rot and presumably cedar is unavailable or pricey. Murray McG had a tank made and dipped timber; story on his Twitter, but as I recall, he was obliged to use timber on an estate that refused to have poly hives on environmental grounds.

 

[Antipodes]

I don't think the finishes mentioned above are available in Aus. I can't find anything containing silicone or wax for instance but they sound fantastic.

 

[HughMann]

You may refer to my previous comments about hot wax dipping, in paraffin wax. My experience seems to indicate that waxing of hive boxes gives far greater protection to the wood than is possible with painting. The reason for this is that painting only treats the surface of the wood, but that hive boxes which are "deep fried" in wax can be 100% impregnated with wax, and therefore totally waterproof.
I do not know what price you may be charged if you wanted to have boxes treated by someone with a wax melter. I do know that it is possible for a moderately skilled home workshop person to make their own wax dipping vat from galvanised sheet metal. I have made my own vat which has enabled me to be completely successful in dipping my boxes.
If there is sufficient interest in such a project, I could be persuaded to create documentation giving details of how I built it.

I see a long winter ahead and have already downloaded plans for loads of projects - this one seems a great one. Let me know if you write down your design please.
Is wax dipping cedar OTT?

 

[user 819]

Deal/Redwood boxes should be fine if they are looked after, as I mentioned the top and bot edges can be dealt with by spreading the melted propolis to penetrate the grain cells. All exterior faces I use cuprinol shades, two or three coats first time round and then single coats when they need it (maybe every other year or three). No rot with mine, gradually though I'm replacing broods with Abelo poly for winter and use the wooden in Spring/summer so I can give the Poly's a clean.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see a long winter ahead and have already downloaded plans for loads of projects - this one seems a great one. Let me know if you write down your design please.
Is wax dipping cedar OTT?

You don't need to dip cedar. It has its own preserving oils

 

[Erichalfbee]

You may refer to my previous comments about hot wax dipping, in paraffin wax.

Is paraffin wax a good thing to use with bees?

 

[understanding_bees]

Is paraffin wax a good thing to use with bees?

Paraffin wax is "inert" in a biological sense, probably in much the same way as is beeswax. I have not been able to observe any adverse effect at all, in housing the bees in wax impregnated boxes.
From my observations, wax impregnated wood is completely waterproof. In addition to this, because the cells of the timber have absorbed the wax, I believe that the wood is much less likely to offer any opportunity for bacteria or fungus to find a refuge.
It is likely that most beekeepers have experienced their bees building wild comb at some time or other, and my bees have likewise shown their ability to firmly attach wild comb directly to a waxed surface. It is easier to scrape off wild comb from a waxed surface than it is to clean wild comb from a natural (untreated) wood surface.

 

[Murox]

Additive free, it is odourless, colourless and tasteless; but as a petroleum based product the purist would probably object.

 

[Malcolm Stamp]

I also use langstroth and any cheap pine including old pallets. I think th issue is the finish you are putting on them more than anything. I learnt when I was keeping bees in Ireland (a soggy country) that if you painted pine with a couple of good coats of paint it would rot very quickly because you trapped the moisture in. Something like Cuprinol Shades allows the wood to breath and you will have no problem. Many a beekeeper I knew would just use old engine oil on the outside with no ill effects but it doesn’t have quite the attraction of a soft pastel shade.