14x12 to Nat: Can I save the comb?

[Stedic]

I have in my mind that I'm going to change from 14x12 to national frames next year. Plenty of reasons so don't intend to revisit that on this thread.

Having thought about it I thought my options were either a Bailey change or a shook swarm (I favour the former). Alternative would be to somehow change comb during a Snelgrove type move?

What I am wondering though is whether there is a way that I can somehow retain the comb they have built in the 14x12 frames? Is it possible to cut the bottom of the 14x12 frame off, leaving the comb in? Or is that just going to create a huge mess.

I'm not desperate to do it, I just thought it might be a bit less disruptive for the colonies if I can find a way to let them keep their drawn comb, even if it is then gradually replaced over the rest of the season.

 

[Millet]

I have cut standard national brood foundation into three and four and elastic banded them into empty new frames (Queen making purposes) .. all bar one of these frames are fully drawn and look totally normal.. so me thinks if i was in your situation i would cut the good out of the 14x12 to fit a standard national frame and laggy band it up. the bees will do the rest..

 

[justsmith]

Just to play devils advocate do you realy need to save the brood comb? If you wait till they try to swarm and do a demaree swarm control just give the old queen all new foundation (or just cut off the bottom one or two frames if you want her to have some brood)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just to play devils advocate do you realy need to save the brood comb? If you wait till they try to swarm and do a demaree

If you wait until they 'try to swarm' then it's too late and it's not a Demarree - Demarree is a proactive action to avoid swarming, no wonder peolple are moaning their Demarrees don't work if that's the way they do it.
I wouldn't bother trying to adapt the old comb - Bailey comb change once they get going in the spring, then take it as an opportunity to get them on all fresh new comb.

 

[Stedic]

Thank you for the replies so far.

It does seem like a Bailey change is the way to go. I'm slightly concerned about ending up with 14x12s full of honey/pollen, but I will add an upper entrance and hope for the best! I suppose I can remove and replace the outer (empty) frames in early spring. Adding nationals in might risk a bit of brace comb but will also be a way to start reducing the 14x12s before any risk of filling.

I like the elastic band idea and may do a bit of that back in the garage. If nothing else it would give me a few frames of stores/comb for my nuc boxes.

 

[Anduril]

If you wanted to cut the frames to standard size, if the hive or hives are in and out apiary you would need a cordless saw and insulation board (celotex) to fit underneath leaving space for the entrance and do a few at a time and nail the bottom rails back on. When you get to the last few you can transfer to a standard brood box. This is a bit of a faff, but can be done by shaking all the bees off each frame and securing the queen. Then you can either sell the 14x12 brood box or cut it to size. Remember that these frames will be delicate to handle until you replace all of them. Also the comb you have cut can be elastic banded and pinched together, but this is a messy process. You now have a few ideas to use.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I would get the bees onto National frame with a Bailey comb exchange in Spring. Once they start working on drawing comb upstairs and with a queen excluder between the boxes and with a top entrance and small eke and the lower entrance closed up, most of the stores will be gone by the time the brood has emerged from the 14 x 12 frames. If you want to hack about with the frames after that to cut them down, then you can do that away from the hive at your leisure.