14 X 12 is it becoming more popular ?

[Swarm]

Hinging to check for cells and a quick look at things in the top box is what I do with my doubles.
Don't like the 14x12 frame at all, I think I'd go Langstroth if I was to change, though Commercial BB is another good option.

 

[mbc]

I'm phasing out my commercials in favour of nationals as my bees seem to get going better in the more contained box and after working a few 14 x 12's I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole, I found them awkward and cumbersome and much slower and more precarious to work with.

 

[peteinwilts]

my 2 cents

I have had some really good successful hives with 14x12, including 'really' good ones that required another half or more.

smaller colonys appear to take longer to get going.

I find some hives prefer to build upwards than outwards producing QC's if not allowed to do so. This does not appear to happen of 14x12's.

the foundation is a real pain in the bum as it often warps causing 'interesting brood pattens and wild comb. Also bees chewing through foundation, making through routes and wild comb only appears to happen on 14x12's.

They are heavy and cumbersome and together with my slippy discs, would not think about taking them to OSR any more.
The only reason I'm using 14x12's now is because I thought it would be a good idea at the time.

I have about 15 hives worth of 14x12 frames. I will continue to run them until they are gone, but will buy no more...

 

[mbc]

...making through routes ...

A symptom of too large a slab of comb for the bees likeing and them wanting short cuts.

 

[REDWOOD]

Back to the original question do 14x12 BB reduce swarming.......... who knows Without a test with of a few standard and a few 14x12 with identical strain bees in all. Ask the question what triggers swarming and not enough space is one of them. I only use 14x12 as the bees will have more room to store honey for the winter and less to feed

 

[Ely]

Hinging to check for cells and a quick look at things in the top box is what I do with my doubles.
Don't like the 14x12 frame at all, I think I'd go Langstroth if I was to change, though Commercial BB is another good option.

Commercials are great. Overpriced straight from t hornes website though. A local t hornes agent sells all the sections much cheaper. I'm not sure how that works

 

[moor141]

This years plan is to run a couple of colonies on commercial brood to access any advantages over the National double brood. For me this seems the a better option than going to Langstroth as I can carry on using National floors/roofs and supers. The hope is the extra room will allow use of a single brood. Time will tell. Managed to pick a few Commercial boxes in Th---es sale at a resonable price.

 

[itma]

I have been reading this forum most days for the last couple of years or so and wondered if the 14x12 format was becoming more popular. Reading through some of the more recent post it would appear so.
If it is........is it because more and more people are thinking it will help with their swarm control as its bigger and the bees are less likely too.

I'm sure there are lots of reasons that 14x12 isn't popular with large-scale beekeepers.
Many of those are also reasons why it can be a reasonable choice for the hobby beekeeper!

Certainly, if compared against a SINGLE brood national, the 14x12 will be less prone to swarming, but not particularly if compared against a national brood-and-a-half.
However, its the simple avoidance of brood-and-a-half that I like.

I think 14x12 must be becoming more popular - as evidenced by T's starting to offer a 14x12 version of their bees on a budget package. I suspect that they were responding to, rather than leading, demand.

 

[itma]

This years plan is to run a couple of colonies on commercial brood to access any advantages over the National double brood. For me this seems the a better option than going to Langstroth as I can carry on using National floors/roofs and supers. The hope is the extra room will allow use of a single brood. Time will tell. Managed to pick a few Commercial boxes in Th---es sale at a resonable price.

Surprised that you didn't go for the dead cheap 14x12 ekes in the sale.
Those, some frame sidebars and jumbo foundation would have been all you needed, to try the format. And if you didn't like it, dead easy to revert your national brood boxes to the way they were.
The wider topbars are a better idea, even for ordinary national deeps, but if you use the usual DN4's, you could get away with using the narrow topbar on a 14x12, though it won't be as robust against rough handling ... So just sidebars needed, rather than complete frames, for the trial.

 

[hallshoney]

I was given 3 14x12 complete with bees tried them for 2 seasons cant say i liked them at all. Bees seemed to prefer filling up the 2 outer frames on both sides of the hive with honey and not going up into the super. Prefer to only use a frame i can fit in my extractor.

 

[Bates]

Very interesting topic, I have noticed the popularity of the 14x12 hives increasing. Although for myself I find it far easier to just a standard national. If you keep ontop of swarm control I do not see any big issues. I'd rather be running Langstroff than anything as a lot of things are readily available and known around the world but National is where the demand is. We only use deep boxes for everything, we do not use the standard size supers. I dont want to be messing around with many different frame sizes, standardised sizes makes life for us far easier.

 

[Pete D]

However, its the simple avoidance of brood-and-a-half that I like. (ITMA quote)



Thats how I got here, my first hive nearly a couple of years back was on brood and half when it arrived and as a new beekeeper I found it hard and slow to check 22 frames every week. I was new and thats what I was taught to do. I swiftly bucked the local trend (I dont know of any others) and changed to 14x12 last year following T's winter sale. Not long after that I spent the week with Chris B and his poly langs and found them very good.
Now though I have had a summer on 14x12 and a few std I like the 14x12, its what I am used too. Std frames now seem so small.
I have said before that if I was starting again I would be on poly langs but with my current stocks of wooden boxes I will stay with Cedar and 14x12's with a few std nationals. Unless of course somebody wants to buy a job lot of 'new' cedar hives..............about 30-35 all less than 2 years old !

Pete D

 

[Pete D]

I think 14x12 must be becoming more popular - as evidenced by T's starting to offer a 14x12 version of their bees on a budget package. I suspect that they were responding to, rather than leading, demand.[/QUOTE

I had noticed that and not just them either................ must be a trend !

Pete D

 

[tyke]

I'm slowly switching over to 14 x 12 as I also found going through a brood and a half time consuming.

It's also easier if I have to swap frames around between colonies when one may need a boost of a frame of eggs.

Going through the Winter is easier as you only need to worry about getting one box filled with stores rather than trying to get a single brood box chocked full and even then that may not be enough for a hungry colony.

I think one other reason why 14 x 12 has become popular is that most colonies kept by amateurs these days are bigger. Queens from European strains are more prolific than the native British black bee and these traits now seem to be present in most colonies.

Andy

 

[oliver90owner]

14 X 12 is it becoming more popular ?

Clearly. When I started there were none with 14 x 12s in my local BKA.

I was the only one when I changed (for about three years or so), but now there are more. Ipso facto: becoming more popular a) among beeks and b) the actual number of hives.

Think about it, many have beeen made in the last ten years and I don't see them discarded. There are many more who have converted deeps to extra deeps with an eke.

When I started I looked at the more common formats and originally bought National deeps (keeping in mind the possibility of the bigger box conversion) rather than starting on Langstroth. I also got another two colonies at the same time (as I 'bought into' a mentor, so as to speak).

My theory was simply based on a spherical cluster, or broodnest, as the ideal shape that bees would conform to, given the opportunity.

RAB

 

[alanf]

This came up a while back with people who have been keeping longer than I have. Ten or twenty years ago there were those with a few hives who wanted 'a bigger single brood box'. They rarely moved hives and managed mostly for honey production. Default choice at the time was commercial broods with national supers. Still an option, but those who have wanted the same thing recently tend to go for 14x12. Closer to what they know and there is the eke potential for simple conversion.

I suspect it's partly 14x12 replacing commercials. You would have to chart the frame sales of the major suppliers to get an idea what's going on and it's against a background of doubling beekeeper numbers in 20 years. Of course those with larger operations or into queen rearing have other priorities and there's a lot to be said for the versatility of all your brood in deep nationals.

 

[moor141]

Surprised that you didn't go for the dead cheap 14x12 ekes in the sale.
Those, some frame sidebars and jumbo foundation would have been all you needed, to try the format. And if you didn't like it, dead easy to revert your national brood boxes to the way they were.
The wider topbars are a better idea, even for ordinary national deeps, but if you use the usual DN4's, you could get away with using the narrow topbar on a 14x12, though it won't be as robust against rough handling ... So just sidebars needed, rather than complete frames, for the trial.

I 've heard mixed reviews re 14x12. The commercial route looked like a good alternative. As I said I'll experimenting this season only on couple of colonies, the rest stay on double brood national.

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

14x12

Only thing that worries me is iv'e had a few dead outs and all been in 14x12's and wonder wether unless there a large colony its to big an area/volume to heat over a very cold spell.
dave W

 

[victor meldrew]

Only thing that worries me is iv'e had a few dead outs and all been in 14x12's and wonder wether unless there a large colony its to big an area/volume to heat over a very cold spell.
dave W

Bees heat the cluster rather than the whole hive!
I Run 14x12s and my bees Winter in them very well .
Damp or and draught ( not to be confused with ventilation ) are the killers !Not the size of the box!
VM


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[oliver90owner]

[B... ]had a few dead outs and all been in 14x12's and wonder ...[/B]

I wonder whether there is a great deal of difference between a 14 x 12 and a brood and a super, or a brood and a half? Someone once said crossing (or not!) the frames is a risk in winter, but I would think that risk is miniscule - but if it were a risk then a 14 x 12 frame would beat the other options.