10 billion questions - this one is home-made hive related

[Greggorio]

It's amazing how many questions I have an how inadequate the internet is to answer some of these questions.

I built two of my own Warre hives but the wood available to buy in France is sub-standard. Not in strength etc but I could buy rough wood or planed wood and they will vary in thickness greatly (well lets say they are supposed to be 27mm then they could be 24-29mm).

My question though is this, I need to keep internal diameters if I make my own Dadant hive (so the frames fit) but what if the super is overall 5mm smaller than the broodbox, will I get leaks? Will the propolis stop this? obviously water will run down onto a lip and could get driven inside. I suppose I could plan all the tops so they all become thinner but just checking if it's a huge issue.

Oh yeah and does it matter if the wood is thicker, 27mm is about the only wood I can find that comes wide enough and is untreated to make anything out of.


I really don't want to piss people off by asking loads of stupid questions but I can't find the info elsewhere

 

[pargyle]

It's amazing how many questions I have an how inadequate the internet is to answer some of these questions.

I built two of my own Warre hives but the wood available to buy in France is sub-standard. Not in strength etc but I could buy rough wood or planed wood and they will vary in thickness greatly (well lets say they are supposed to be 27mm then they could be 24-29mm).

My question though is this, I need to keep internal diameters if I make my own Dadant hive (so the frames fit) but what if the super is overall 5mm smaller than the broodbox, will I get leaks? Will the propolis stop this? obviously water will run down onto a lip and could get driven inside. I suppose I could plan all the tops so they all become thinner but just checking if it's a huge issue.

Oh yeah and does it matter if the wood is thicker, 27mm is about the only wood I can find that comes wide enough and is untreated to make anything out of.


I really don't want to piss people off by asking loads of stupid questions but I can't find the info elsewhere

Thicker timber for hives is not going to hurt ...indeed, in terms of insulation I would say that it has benefits.

I would worry about having a 'lip' between the super and brood box as water will almost certainly leach in, the bees will propolise the joint but they will have to remake it every time you inspect.

Do you have a table saw or band saw ? If so, I would cut a strip with a chamfer on it on the top edge 5mm wide and about 25mm deep and tack this around the bottom of the super so the outside diameter matched that of the brood box below. You will only need to do this for the first super above the brood box as, presumably, the other supers you will make will be the same diameter as the top of the first super ?

 

[Greggorio]

It depends on what the wood I buy is. I was just using that as an example. It could be the super is bigger than the brood box etc. Just depends on the timber. Its just generally accepted that the French have dodgy tape measures in their saw mills. If I planed the top 3 inches of the outside so it slopes inwards then it would avoid it ever happening.

I guess weight is the biggest issue with thicker wood but my job is fairly manual so I'll just have to man up a bit

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[pargyle]

It depends on what the wood I buy is. I was just using that as an example. It could be the super is bigger than the brood box etc. Just depends on the timber. Its just generally accepted that the French have dodgy tape measures in their saw mills. If I planed the top 3 inches of the outside so it slopes inwards then it would avoid it ever happening.

I guess weight is the biggest issue with thicker wood but my job is fairly manual so I'll just have to man up a bit

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If you are buying from a sawmill they should be able to cut it to whatever size you want ... raise your voice and wave your arms about ... they'll get the message !

 

[Greggorio]

Haha nah this is from builders merchants. They always vary a few mm in thickness. Its an arse if you need to be accurate. Actual sawmills would probably be OK but it'd cost a fortune

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[ugcheleuce]

Lets say [the wood] is supposed to be 27 mm, then it could be 24-29 mm). ... What if the super is overall 5 mm smaller than the broodbox, will I get leaks?

No, I don't think it will be a problem. The bees will propolise the edges only if the hive bodies don't fit flush against each other (i.e. if there is a gap), but the bees don't care if the one box's wall is 24 mm and the other one is 29 mm. You still have a 24 mm overlap.

There is a risk that water may settle on the ledge, and that it can be driven into the hive by strong winds, but only if the hive bodies don't fit flush against each other. There is also a risk that water on the ledge might penetrate the wood at that point, but only if the wood is untreated.

That is my opinion.

 

[8ace]

A slight chamfer(45 deg bevel) taken off the adjoining top and bottom edges will create a run- off for water if there slight difference in overall box sizes. It also gives better edge protection against impact than a full square edge which is handy when banging boxes around. Common practice in modern joinery even used a lot in windows mortice and tenon shoulders often have chamfers to form v joints to hide any movement as does a lot of furniture we use it on everything nowadays in work.

If you really want all your timber uniform you could pick up a used thicknesses/planer and run it all to the size you want. Always comes in handy you'd be surprised how much you'd use it.

 

[Greggorio]

A slight chamfer(45 deg bevel) taken off the adjoining top and bottom edges will create a run- off for water if there slight difference in overall box sizes. It also gives better edge protection against impact than a full square edge which is handy when banging boxes around. Common practice in modern joinery even used a lot in windows mortice and tenon shoulders often have chamfers to form v joints to hide any movement as does a lot of furniture we use it on everything nowadays in work.

If you really want all your timber uniform you could pick up a used thicknesses/planer and run it all to the size you want. Always comes in handy you'd be surprised how much you'd use it.

a friend has one of them but I'd rather find a way round it rather than plane every single plank. I like the chamfer idea!

Now i just need a diagram for a Dadant hive in English!

 

[Greggorio]

actually one other thing about wood. How do people space their frames? Do you have notches in the box or do you just buy those plastic/metal dividers?

 

[BeeJayBee]

actually one other thing about wood. How do people space their frames? Do you have notches in the box or do you just buy those plastic/metal dividers?

I use Hoffman frames in the brood box, they are self-spacing.

Both Hoffman and Manley frames can be used in supers, both are self-spacing. I don't like using castellations, but plenty of people do.

 

[Obee1]

there are plans here for a modified dadant. Don't know if that helps

http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/TDS number 5 langstroth and md hive.pdf

 

[ugcheleuce]

How do people space their frames? Do you have notches in the box or do you just buy those plastic/metal dividers?

The most common method in my neck of the woods (which is across the channel from you) is metal dividers (castellations). The Hoffman frames never really took off over here. You get 35 mm spacers for the brood boxes and you can put 35 or 38 mm spacers in your honey supers.

 

[Greggorio]

The most common method in my neck of the woods (which is across the channel from you) is metal dividers (castellations). The Hoffman frames never really took off over here. You get 35 mm spacers for the brood boxes and you can put 35 or 38 mm spacers in your honey supers.

Not across the channel, I'm in France (though I'm British). What hives are common in the Netherlands? Also could you share any links to good dutch websites to buy hives and other things? I have a dutch customer who goes back to the Netherlands very often and if the prices are less then it's worth looking into.

 

[Greggorio]

there are plans here for a modified dadant. Don't know if that helps

http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/TDS number 5 langstroth and md hive.pdf

I will go and google what the difference between an MD and a standard Dadant is. But thankyou!