Swarm eating way out of box Help!!!

Angiey · Jul 5, 2012

Hi all. Quick rundown on my situaton Had to go away for couple weeks unexpectedly.Bees left on their own. Went to check on bees last night and found swarm on gatepost and one on fencepost. Got a cardboard box and put them both into it as I do not have any spare gear. Found the queen on one swarm and pretty sure she went in also.Went into hive (I only have one, late swarm from autumn last year ) and found multiple queen cells approx 20 all empty bar three or four. Could not see a queen so I left two QC's that I know of. There is capped brood, nectar and pollen in Brood box, they were making honey in super but all gone and no capped stores in Brood box. Obviously ate all before swarming I am thinking.
Today I went to check again and found lots of activity around the place I put the box with swarm in and found holes in the roof of the box with bees going in and out They had made the holes themselves must have been a weak spot or something.I am trying to source a hive for them but was wondering what I should do for the best outcome.

Do I leave them to come and go or tape up the holes tonight when they are all in if they do come back ??

Am I doing the right thing with the source hive?

oliver90owner · Jul 5, 2012

Can't tell from here.

Depends on what they are doing in the box, really. If they are just clustering and they are scouts looking for a new home, you may be in trouble tomorrow, so need ventilation but temporary imprisonment.

If taking in pollen and they are building comb in the box they may well be setting up home in there.

If they were two small casts you have likely lost a large prime a week ago, and they may cast again - just cannot tell if those capped cells are good or not, so leave as the best you can do.

The two swarms you collected could be a split prime if quite adjacent.

You could check the youngest capped brood to estimate how long the hive has been queenless, but that would only be good if you really wanted to know, and would not help the situation now.

RAB

Black Comb · Jul 5, 2012

If it rains will the box collapse?

enrico · Jul 5, 2012

You need to put something over them that is waterproof, a frame with a cover or an A frame of wood, anything to stop rain making them soggy, then you need a hive ASAP, you have done what you can....my guess a split swarm but who knows for sure?

Finman · Jul 5, 2012

.

No one can help if bees eate tunnel through the wall. That is called "vanishing bees". Who knows what kind of beekeepr you are when bees make so desperate actions.

.

Angiey · Jul 5, 2012

Ive got the box in my old duck house so dry and covered. Bees getting in and out through door.managed to beg a loan of an empty hive tomorrow. Ill leave them settle for the night and check first thing in morning to see if they are still there.
If they are still there what is the best way to get them from the box into the new hive. They are just 3 metres from original hive.

enrico · Jul 5, 2012

Take out any wild comb as long as there is not too much. Put two frames in each side of hive and knock the bees in, drop other frames in and let them settle, on with crown board and roof, move to where you want them if they are a recent swarm, of a few days old put on original site and move a couple of feet a day to where you won't them! Move them after bees have stopped flying in evening.

Angiey · Jul 5, 2012

Thanks for that. Do I keep them in for a couple of days with a feed of sugar syrup. I was going to put the hive beside the one they swarmed from. Is this ok?

oliver90owner · Jul 5, 2012

The best way is likely to run them in, late in the evening, up a sloping board covered with a white sheet, so you can watch them go in.

Alternative is to tip them into the new box of foundation, with the central frames removed and the entrance temporarily closed. A queen excluder below the might be good and perhaps give them a frame of capped brood (open brood is far better but you don't have any!).

Be very careful replacing the frames especially if there is less bottom space (with the Q/E fitted). Check for sagging of the QE (may need to prop it up in the centre with the entrance block or a similar thickness piece of wood) when removing the entrance block.

Do all this in the new location, preferably, and then feed them (your bees, and they could have been clustering for a while).

Watch for foraging and remove feeder if stores are increasing sufficiently quickly.

Remove the Q/E as soon as possible (one or two days) as the queen may be a virgin and need to mate. Weather conditions may be relevant here! and look for brood after a week - if present it was a prime and if not it had a virgin queen (ie was a cast). This is assuming the queen was not clipped.

Don't think I have forgotten anything.

Angiey · Jul 5, 2012

Thank you very much for info. I think it is a cast as I saw the queen and it was not marked as I had the original marked. Fingers crossed they are still there. Might go and "tap" the box tonight when they are settled so I know what I have to do tomorrow.
The capped brood in the original hive is pretty randomly spaced but most frames have some pollen and nectar on them. Would it be ok to put one of these in.

Andy Duff · Jul 5, 2012

Welcome to the world of bee-keeping.
If anybody ask for my advice on keeping bees my usual reply is-
Bee-keeping is a doddle (pause for effect) until it goes wrong and by wrong I mean nightmare.
I usually tell the poor soul, to start you will need to spend £2,000 for 2 hives and colonies, 4 nucs, spare brood boxes, spare supers, a box of spare frames, shallow and deep, etc, etc, etc until I see a look of horror on their face and I add "Oh and a boss who will let you out of work on the first day of decent weather for weeks, so you can go and play with your bees"

Funny thing is they seem to be put off bee-keeping, can't imagine why. :sifone:

Angiey · Jul 7, 2012

Put bees into borrowed hive.They were quite happy in their cardboard box as they had started building comb. I think everything went ok. I have the queenboard on the bottom and will remove after a couple of days incase she hasnt mated and feed on. One question though. Do I leave the entrance opn for workers to come and go immediately or leave them in for a couple of days.

The original hive they swarmed from is next to new one so will the bees stay in their respective "new" hives or move back and fore as the "old" hive is where they came from.Cheers

MuswellMetro · Jul 7, 2012

Andy Duff said:
Welcome to the world of bee-keeping.
If anybody ask for my advice on keeping bees my usual reply is-
Bee-keeping is a doddle (pause for effect) until it goes wrong and by wrong I mean nightmare.
I usually tell the poor soul, to start you will need to spend £2,000 for 2 hives and colonies, 4 nucs, spare brood boxes, spare supers, a box of spare frames, shallow and deep, etc, etc, etc until I see a look of horror on their face and I add "Oh and a boss who will let you out of work on the first day of decent weather for weeks, so you can go and play with your bees"

Funny thing is they seem to be put off bee-keeping, can't imagine why.

Or

you can do it in that short period between claiming your ~Old Age Pension and needing a zimmer frame.....that's assuming it does not bankrupt you first

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