Dealing with brood frames full of random drone cells

pargyle · May 17, 2020

beeno said:
If it is in a nuc it is. In large colony with plenty of nurse bee it is ok. Laying worker colonies are notoriously difficult to requeen? True or False.

If you read the whole thread and all the posts you wil see that we were discounting the 'shook out' hive - I was suggesting, if Emily does not want to buy in a queen then she takes a frame of eggs from her other queen right colony and makes up a nuc with that ... not from the nuc...

Even Emily has understood ...talk of scrub queens in this situation is not necessary and just adds to the confusion.

jenkinsbrynmair · May 17, 2020

pargyle said:
Rubbish - There is nothing wrong with raising a queen from a frame of eggs .. scrub queens only come when a colony only has ageing larvae from which to raise a queen from. Where do you think a mature QC starts out ?

In Emily's situation I would still recommend buying in a queen .. but as a means to get ahead of the game ... not because I would worry about raising a queen from scratch.

That post did not bring much to the picnic IYWMHO

'scrub queen' (whatever that is supposed to mean), must be the 'word of the month'

jenkinsbrynmair · May 17, 2020

beeno said:
If it is in a nuc it is. In large colony with plenty of nurse bee it is ok. Laying worker colonies are notoriously difficult to requeen? True or False.

Can we have a third option?
requeened two laying worker colonies this year - no issues.

E&MBees · May 17, 2020

My husband has made a special brood frame holder for my manual extractor. I have managed to spin out most of the unwanted drone larvae. There are still bits left in the cells.

Can I put the frames with the drone bits back in the hives for the bees to clean or not? Trying to reuse the drawn foundation if possible.

Erichalfbee · May 17, 2020

How ingenious
If the drones cells are extended worker cells the bees will fix them so you can put it back

E&MBees · May 17, 2020

Does it matter about the discombobulated drone larvae that won’t spin out? Will the undertaker bees clean them out ok?

Erichalfbee · May 17, 2020

E&MBees · May 17, 2020

Brilliant! That will give me some drawn foundation that they can work on.

E&MBees · May 17, 2020

Spinning out the drone larvae laid by the workers

pargyle · May 17, 2020

Messy but ingenuous ... like it ! Now what are you going to do ? Do you have a plan?

E&MBees · May 17, 2020

pargyle said:
Messy but ingenuous ... like it ! Now what are you going to do ? Do you have a plan?

Yep, I have a plan.

The queen that I caged yesterday is now loose in the hive that was shaken out. They have drawn foundation so if she is able to lay, she can. The weather is set good this week so if she is unmated she should be able to fly & mate.

I am going to wait until next weekend and inspect. Hopefully there will be eggs laid in a good pattern and position. I will then wait for them to be capped. If the caps are level with the surface it’s worker larvae, in which case the queen is functioning ok at this point. If there is random drone larvae as before, the queen has failed. At this point, I’m going to buy a UK queen and put her in a nuc with capped brood and nurse bees from my strong hive. I’ll then shake out the failed colony and move it from its current location. The shook bees will either beg a new home or perish.

Does this sound sensible?

If I needed to buy a queen, what do I need to consider? Do I try an get one from a breeder that is geographically close so she is adapted to local conditions?

Many thanks for your help.

pargyle · May 17, 2020

Sounds like a good way forward to me .. you've thought about what you want and how you are going to get there. As always the battle plan will only last until the start of the battle but that's what beekeeping is always going to be like.

It's your plan ... it should work and if it doesn't you have a Plan B in the making.

Well done ...

As for buying in a queen ... oh my .. that's a whole new contentious subject. Me ? I only ever buy in British reared queens .. I don't buy many but over the years I've had queens from Exmoor Bees, Ged Marshall, Beckys Bees and Jon Getty .. and I hope, in the near future, to have one coming from Ceri Morgan who has very nice small black bees. I have been pleased with all of them over the years ... I'm just interested in the different characteristics they provide when compared to my local mongrels.

So.. it depends on what you are looking for in your new colony ... there could be dozens of recommendations and they will, probably, all be right.

jenkinsbrynmair · May 17, 2020

e&mbees said:
yep, i have a plan.

The queen that i caged yesterday is now loose in the hive that was shaken out. They have drawn foundation so if she is able to lay, she can. The weather is set good this week so if she is unmated she should be able to fly & mate.

I am going to wait until next weekend and inspect. Hopefully there will be eggs laid in a good pattern and position. I will then wait for them to be capped. If the caps are level with the surface it’s worker larvae, in which case the queen is functioning ok at this point. If there is random drone larvae as before, the queen has failed. At this point, i’m going to buy a uk queen and put her in a nuc with capped brood and nurse bees from my strong hive. I’ll then shake out the failed colony and move it from its current location. The shook bees will either beg a new home or perish.

Does this sound sensible?

If i needed to buy a queen, what do i need to consider? Do i try an get one from a breeder that is geographically close so she is adapted to local conditions?
Many thanks for your help.

E&MBees · May 24, 2020

A quick update, still not 100% certain that all is ok, but it might be to early to tell yet?

Inspected the hive I shook out last week. There are plenty of eggs, mostly single in a good position in the cells, centrally rather than on the cell walls. The pattern is not as uniform as the other hive though. Temperament wise, they were less chilled than last week, fanning and noisier but nothing else.

The frame of eggs that I added from the queen right hive (Just in case) have been sealed as worker brood. No sign of any queen cells on that frame.

However, there were some queen cups, with two eggs in, but no royal jelly else where. I have removed them.

Should I now wait another week to see if the eggs that have been laid turn in to workers?

Thanks for your help,
Emily

enrico · May 24, 2020

You will know as soon as they are capped. But if they are in worker cells and as uniform as you say then I would keep my fingers crossed!
E

jenkinsbrynmair · May 24, 2020

E&MBees · May 31, 2020

Laying worker colony

Disaster!

The queen hasn’t come up trumps. It’s definitely still a LW colony. They have a good amount of stores and some very nicely drawn foundation. Is my best bet to leave the hive as it is as they will guard the stores UNTIL I manage to get a new queen? I would like to be able to use the stores and drawn foundation for the queen and colony.

I would also like to be able to put the new queen and her colony where the LW colony is now, as this is the best layout for the apiary.

Therefore:

If I shake out the hive when the queen is ordered, remove it whilst she is in the post and then put a nuc back in its place when she arrives, will that be enough time to ensure that the LW’s have begged board and lodgings in the other queen right hive?

What is the best time of day to shake out a hive?

The queenright hive has one partial frame left to fill and then it is full. Would it be worth adding the second brood box onto that hive to give her more space?

So many questions, sorry!

Many thanks,
Emily

E&MBees · May 31, 2020

Purchasing Queens

I need to purchase a queen, to replace a colony that has become full of laying workers. This will be shaken out. The original queen swarmed at Easter and is now established in another hive in the apiary. The queen that emerged in the parent hive following the swarm did not succeed. I have tried adding eggs from the queen right colony, but this has failed too.

I would like to establish a new colony so that I have two going into the winter.

What should I be considering when I buy queen? I have looked at some websites, and the possibilities are endless. Some places seem to import queens, others are UK breeders.

Temperament is important, they are in my garden currently. I would like some honey, but I’m not ready to consider things like queen breeding etc yet.

Many thanks,
Emily

madasafish · May 31, 2020

E&MBees said:
I need to purchase a queen, to replace a colony that has become full of laying workers. This will be shaken out. The original queen swarmed at Easter and is now established in another hive in the apiary. The queen that emerged in the parent hive following the swarm did not succeed. I have tried adding eggs from the queen right colony, but this has failed too.

I would like to establish a new colony so that I have two going into the winter.

What should I be considering when I buy queen? I have looked at some websites, and the possibilities are endless. Some places seem to import queens, others are UK breeders.

Temperament is important, they are in my garden currently. I would like some honey, but I’m not ready to consider things like queen breeding etc yet.

Many thanks,
Emily

Try young larvae: bees will remove eggs raised by another queen.

You may have a virgin Q

pargyle · May 31, 2020

Hi Emily,

You might be better adding this thread to your previous one as I can see some issues here -:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=708196#post708196

that will need to be thought about before you start ordering a new queen .. Perhaps ask the mods to combine the threads ?

Dealing with brood frames full of random drone cells

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